Naniwa SS 1-8k - what to expect/how to finish?

I've recently taken the plunge and purchased some Naniwa SS stones. I have, on the way, a 1k, 3k and 8k stone, and may add a 5k to the line-up if it seems advisable. Until now my honing has mainly consisted of doing 'touch ups,' using the Welsh tri-hone set consisting of a Dragon Tongue, Llyn Melynllyn and the purple slate advertised as 12-15k.

For the sake of practice I've been trying to get some factory-sharpened razors up to shave-readiness using these three stones; one Kamisori and one regular straight razor. I feel I've gotten fairly close but it's a long, drawn-out process using the Dragon Tongue and lots of experiments with slurry. My question: can anyone give me some advice on what to expect from the SS stones when I'm using to working with hard slate? Moreover can anyone suggest where my current stones would fit in this lineup? My feeling is the dragon tongue will be redundant, and I'm hoping it will be as I dislike the feel of it.

My hope is that I can use my two welsh stones exclusively with oil as finishers and touch-up stones. I much prefer the feel of light oil on these stones, but will this effect their ability to be used with slurry?

Lastly, can anyone recommend to me any useful extras to purchase to get the most out of these Naniwa stones? I considered buying a Naniwa flattening stone, but can't find any larger than the stones themselves. Will sandpaper and tile do the job for the time being? And would it be worth investing in natural nagura stones to partner with these hones?

Hi there,

My advice would be to learn the Naniwas first before you start to mix 'em with your Welsh hones. I've never used a Dragon Tongue so I don't have any direct comparison but I find the Naniwas to work pretty fast on a razor with a well-set bevel so you probably need less strokes. One thing you have to keep an eye on though is that swarf builds up quite quickly on the Naniwas and needs to be removed regularly in order to make best use of them. To remove this the Naniwa nagura works nicely (a big red nagura that also comes with the Naniwa Choseras). I'd recommend getting on of these. However, Wet&dry should be fine to keep the Naniwas flat.

Good luck
Jörg

P.S. Once you get good shaves off the 8K I'd take it to the purple slate to see whether it improves the edge.

Thanks for the advice Jorg. I'll see what I can do at 8k. One thing though, about the Nagura stones, do I need one per hone? I've never been entirely clear on this. Moreover are natural nagura stones better or worse for this job?

I have the lower two grit slates and a 10k nani, so I will be interested to see the responses you get, though I think I posted a similar thread when trying to work out what nani to get next.
I find that I can get quite a nice edge with the slates, and the naturals seem to have a different feel than the synthetics, so you might find that different razors work better with different combos.
I only do refreshes at the moment though so wait for a few more exprerienced opinions. Havachat has the slates and other stones but I am not sure what the others are.

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Originally Posted by dadsavage

Thanks for the advice Jorg. I'll see what I can do at 8k. One thing though, about the Nagura stones, do I need one per hone? I've never been entirely clear on this. Moreover are natural nagura stones better or worse for this job?

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You can use one for all stones. And please note that I use it solely to "open" the stones, i.e. removing the swarf. I don't hone in the slurry produced by this nagura. So, after I've removed the swarf I clean the hone under running water and sharpen with plain water only.

Cheers
Jörg

You should have no problems shaving off a properly honed razor on the 8k and its a nice smooth feel on the naniwas. For lapping and cleaning the easiest way is a DMT D8C. This saves on individual W and D sheets for each hone and is flat and works fast and is easy to use while honing. These are your almost universally recommended item for this purpose. I would not use it on the slates though as they can strip the surface of the diamond coating. Silicone carbide grit is good for the hard naturals for lapping

You should have a good time with this...

First off, put the WHIGs away

Work the Naniwa SS 1-3-8 until you can get a CCS with them, I think you are going to find the 8k shave is much better then you think it will be, the Naniwa SS 8k is quite a polisher..

The "DT" will be useless after using the 8k,, the other 2 slates you are going to have to try them and decide if they add anything to the system either together or in sequence.. I find them to be decent finishers, my definition of a finisher "Does it improve on the feel of an 8k shave"...

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You can use one for all stones. And please note that I use it solely to "open" the stones, i.e. removing the swarf. I don't hone in the slurry produced by this nagura. So, after I've removed the swarf I clean the hone under running water and sharpen with plain water only.

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Thanks

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You should have no problems shaving off a properly honed razor on the 8k and its a nice smooth feel on the naniwas. For lapping and cleaning the easiest way is a DMT D8C. This saves on individual W and D sheets for each hone and is flat and works fast and is easy to use while honing. These are your almost universally recommended item for this purpose. I would not use it on the slates though as they can strip the surface of the diamond coating. Silicone carbide grit is good for the hard naturals for lapping

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What grit on the D8C? I've found some to purchase, but it offers them in fine, extra fine, course and extra course. I have a long silicone carbide stone which I could use for the slates, but I'm not sure if it is entirely flat itself.

Do you think this might work?

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Work the Naniwa SS 1-3-8 until you can get a CCS with them, I think you are going to find the 8k shave is much better then you think it will be, the Naniwa SS 8k is quite a polisher..

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I don't think this will be a big problem. I've had practice using a 3/8k stone and could get close to shave ready.

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The "DT" will be useless after using the 8k,, the other 2 slates you are going to have to try them and decide if they add anything to the system either together or in sequence.. I find them to be decent finishers, my definition of a finisher "Does it improve on the feel of an 8k shave"...

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The DT works really well for my kitchen knives. Which is what I bought my 3/8k stone for originally. I usually go from the 3k side to the DT and get really lovely results. I finish with one of those tiny 'jade' hones you see on Ebay all the time. It's so hard and glassy I just run it straight down the blade and it polishes very well.

For the other two I am learning to like the Yellow Lake more than the '15k,' hone. It seems to give smoother results.

The D8C is the continious coarse 8x3. Silicon carbide grit is a powder used on a flat surface. Stones will not remain flat a will need just as much lapping as the stone you are trying to lap.

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The D8C is the continuous coarse 8x3. Silicon carbide grit is a powder used on a flat surface. Stones will not remain flat a will need just as much lapping as the stone you are trying to lap.

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Heh, I figured the D8C thing out just after posting, looking at the listing, realized the c was for course. Thanks though ^^ as for the powder I'll check it out. Either way the stone I was talking about did have one use: I was able to bevel the edges of my slates the other day. Quick job since only the DT needed it from scratch. Now I just need some of that powder. I may just go for the sandpaper for now though.

Will the D8C work to bevel the edges of the naniwas? I have some sanding drums and a die grinder which might if not, but these are a bit messy and it's good to have a stone to smooth it out after.

The D8C will bevel the edges just fine for you.
The DMT D8C is the stones stone :p

Fantastic. I'm far too clumsy to use stones without a nice bevel.

Now I just need to play around using a little soap lather on my slates while I wait for my Naniwas to arrive. The first lapping will probably be with sandpaper. Simply because the postage on the DMT is enough that I'd rather not buy it on its own. Once I've had a little practice with these stones I'll get the D8C and a Nani 12k.

Then I can see how the 8k edge finished on the 12k compares with the 8k edge finished on the Yellow Lake or the 15k, or perhaps both. I have a feeling the Nani 12k will be faster and more forgiving during the honing process and so it'll no doubt be worth keeping regardless.

One way I've been playing with the welsh stones is using the DT/Yellow lake on a 2:1 lap ratio after coming off the 8k side of my hone, and then doing the same with the Yellow Lake/15k to finish. Hopefully with the Naniwa 8k getting me shave ready I can jump to the second step to finish. If the purple stone gives a sharper edge and the Yellow Lake gives a smoother edge, which is my experience, I'll hopefully be getting a compromise of sorts.

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Originally Posted by dadsavage

Heh, I figured the D8C thing out just after posting, looking at the listing, realized the c was for course. Thanks though ^^ as for the powder I'll check it out. Either way the stone I was talking about did have one use: I was able to bevel the edges of my slates the other day. Quick job since only the DT needed it from scratch. Now I just need some of that powder. I may just go for the sandpaper for now though.

Will the D8C work to bevel the edges of the naniwas? I have some sanding drums and a die grinder which might if not, but these are a bit messy and it's good to have a stone to smooth it out after.

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I beveled a nani 10k with an atoma 400g plate, I think it's a pretty standard thing to use your lapping plate to bevel your stones with, after all you are only going to put a very tiny one on.

I've been doing a little searching around on the forums, reading about other peoples experience with the welsh stones and saw some comments about lapping them on DMTs. Is this advisable?

Also, I've seen Naniwa flattening stones. For about the same price as the DMT there's an absolutely huge one. Are these any good?

The DMT 8C is by far the most useful hone on my bench, it is worth the money (Atoma is another option)

Reading your post I think perhaps you need to watch the lapping vids especially the one from Stubear about how easy it is to Chamfer the corners

http://straightrazorpalace.com/video...dges-hone.html

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Reading your post I think perhaps you need to watch the lapping vids especially the one from Stubear about how easy it is to Chamfer the corners

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I've already done this for my slates. I can't imagine it'll be harder with the SS stones as they're softer.