been honing with Norton in hand

I'm pretty new to honing, i actually have only recently been able to consistently set a bevel properly and hone up through the different grit stones with success...

when i first started honing i was using lapping film on a small polished marble plate...i followed a video tutorial made by Slash McCoy and he always says that if you hold the plate in your hand while honing it helps to create a balance, and helps to keep the blade on the honing surface better...

well i was having a lot of trouble keeping my blade flat on my Norton 4k/8k and my Naniwa 12k...i was honing sitting down like Lynn does in his videos.....

so yesterday I decided to try holding the stone in my left hand and honing with my right hand... all I can say is "holy crap" I can't believe it worked...it felt comfortable, and very natural, and the blade just seem to melt into the stone never leaving the stone's surface... I just put the best edge on my blade that I have ever had and subsequently had the best shave I've ever had with a straight razor...

I suppose it's all about finding the best way to do things that work for you... and I'm happy to have found something that really works for me

I made the same transition to honing in hand, and I can't imagine doing it any other way now.

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Originally Posted by Badgister

I made the same transition to honing in hand, and I can't imagine doing it any other way now.

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That's exactly how I felt, it's like it was meant to be hah.

The first time is saw anyone holding a stone while honing was in a YouTube video of Mastro Livi and at the time I couldn't believe that he could just reach into the bucket of water, pull out a stone and give the razor a few laps...but last night that was EXACTLY what I found myself doing, and it was as natural as can be.

The Norton 8x3 is a chunk of stone. I have some smaller naturals, 5x2 1/2 that I will hone in hand, and it is pretty cool. I started out with the Nortons and Lynn's video. I hone standing at the kitchen counter, in front of the sink, and found that more comfortable, and efficient, for me than sitting down. I guess it is a matter of what you get used to. Whatever works best for you.

I definitely agree, it is a bit bulky to hold in hand, the Naniwa's seem a bit thinner and maybe easier to hold, do you know if they come out of the stand they're in?

That's funny because I also hone standing at the kitchen counter, I fill the smaller side of the sink with water and put my stones in there, fits perfectly...and put my DMT in the bigger side of the sink for lapping. It's nice because everything can get wet without damaging anything.

A lot of time I find it depends on the specific razor. The balance,? The size,?, the scales,? Some work better holding the stone; others on a table.

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Originally Posted by Boarder277

I definitely agree, it is a bit bulky to hold in hand, the Naniwa's seem a bit thinner and maybe easier to hold, do you know if they come out of the stand they're in?

That's funny because I also hone standing at the kitchen counter, I fill the smaller side of the sink with water and put my stones in there, fits perfectly...and put my DMT in the bigger side of the sink for lapping. It's nice because everything can get wet without damaging anything.

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From what I've heard taking the naniwa supers out of the base is a no go. OTOH, they make the same stone 10mm thick instead of 5mm with no base. Last I knew you had to order them from Germany or Japan. I had those for awhile but sold them. The 10mm stones are quite heavy though so that would sort of defeat the purpose if hand holding was the goal.

Honing at the kitchen sink is my preferred method for exactly the reasons you mention. Very convenient. Also, my arm kind of naturally hangs in a comfortable position to go through the stroke. If I'm sitting down I could never get my arm in a comfortable hang that felt "right."

I use the table & stone holders. I want the most consistency that I can get. I want to be able to rule out certain components one at a time when I'm having problems with a blade.

I watch all the Heat games, got my Norris Cole # 30 jersey in the mail last week, went to the court a day later wearing it, still missed the rim 8 out of 10 times, just can't figure it out. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

From what I've heard taking the naniwa supers out of the base is a no go. OTOH, they make the same stone 10mm thick instead of 5mm with no base. Last I knew you had to order them from Germany or Japan. I had those for awhile but sold them. The 10mm stones are quite heavy though so that would sort of defeat the purpose if hand holding was the goal.

Honing at the kitchen sink is my preferred method for exactly the reasons you mention. Very convenient. Also, my arm kind of naturally hangs in a comfortable position to go through the stroke. If I'm sitting down I could never get my arm in a comfortable hang that felt "right."

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I had a feeling that was the case with the Naniwa stones in the stand. It looks like the stand might be light enough to hold the whole thing in one hand while honing. Does it seem like it's pretty light?

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Originally Posted by Boarder277

I had a feeling that was the case with the Naniwa stones in the stand. It looks like the stand might be light enough to hold the whole thing in one hand while honing. Does it seem like it's pretty light?

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I've never had the superstones in the base. I imagine they would be pretty light. The plastic base probably weighs next to nothing and the stone, being 5mm thick, is half the thickness of a Norton. Maybe give Don a call over at SRD and he could probably tell you definitely. The 12k superstone is one of the favored finishers, for the feel of the edge on skin ...... IME.

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Originally Posted by Hirlau

I use the table & stone holders. I want the most consistency that I can get. I want to be able to rule out certain components one at a time when I'm having problems with a blade.

I watch all the Heat games, got my Norris Cole # 30 jersey in the mail last week, went to the court a day later wearing it, still missed the rim 8 out of 10 times, just can't figure it out. :shrug:

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I can definitely understand where your coming from with regards to ruling out any variables in the honing process while dealing with problems with a blade.

I haven't tried holding the stone in hand while honing a blade with issues yet, only to refresh, or re-set the bevel on a dull, but otherwise perfect new razor. For me I feel like I get far more consistent feedback on the hone when holding it, it's like my 2 arms find a natural balance and I'm able to keep the blade perfectly flat....It even worked for me while using Lynn's circle method on my Norton 1k...I'll have to play around with the stone on the table when when I work on my old Gold Dollar that I'm (trying) to restore haha

+1 to hirlau. Every stone that fits has it own stone holder. I use 2 hands sometimes to rock and roll these off razors. But its a very personal thing. I do like some small jnats I have holding in my hand. Very personal choice here so you got to be comfortable however that is for you.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I've never had the superstones in the base. I imagine they would be pretty light. The plastic base probably weighs next to nothing and the stone, being 5mm thick, is half the thickness of a Norton. Maybe give Don a call over at SRD and he could probably tell you definitely. The 12k superstone is one of the favored finishers, for the feel of the edge on skin ...... IME.

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Do you definitely feel like the Naniwa 12k gives that exceptional edge after the 8k?

That's what most guys here seem to say, I just ordered one from SRD yesterday, I should have it in the mail tonight when I get home from work so I'm looking forward to giving my already shave-ready Dovo Bismarck a few laps on my Norton 8k, then some finishing strokes on the new 12k, then a few laps probably with my 0.5 micron CrOx spray on my modular paddle strop, followed by leather and see how that goes

Unfortunately I just shaved last night ; ) figures hah

I have been finishing on 1micron lapping film after the Norton 8k recently with good results but I can't wait to try the Naniwa 12k....btw do you typically need to lap the Naniwa much when it's brand new? Or just pencil in a grid and smooth it out on the 325 DMT?

I think, IME, the advantage in holding the stone in hand, is that we get tactile feedback through each hand. Feeling it through the razor on the one hand and through the stone on the other. I guess I'm stating the obvious for those of us who've done it, but for those who haven't ....... that is the payoff IMHO.

The only stones that I hold are stones for use on my knives & axes. I don't have the need to be precise with them.

Chefknivestogo has the superstones without the base. I think it would be very awkward to hold with the base.

Michael

Pauls finest in Canada sells naniwa and chosera stones without the plastic bases.

I have two small Jnats that I find easier to hold in hand when honing than to place flat on a surface. One nice byproduct of hand holding a stone is that it keeps you from using too much pressure as you hone. But it also seems harder to manage on those lower grit stones. Whatever you find is comfortable is best.

Up through 4k I use a holder, 8k 50/50 whether I use the holder or my hand, finishing stones I always hold them. I like the tactile response on the finishing stones and I can keep a lighter touch holding them.

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Originally Posted by Boarder277

Do you definitely feel like the Naniwa 12k gives that exceptional edge after the 8k?

I'm looking forward to giving my already shave-ready Dovo Bismarck a few laps on my Norton 8k, then some finishing strokes on the new 12k...

...btw do you typically need to lap the Naniwa much when it's brand new? Or just pencil in a grid and smooth it out on the 325 DMT?

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Just a thought but consider skipping the CrOx for a bit, give yourself a chance to see what you are getting and can get out of the 12K.

If you throw in the CrOx to start you won't really know what the stone is doing.

The only thing I have found with the Naniwa stones is they will swell a bit after being wet for a while,

My thought is if you are using it as a splash and go lap it under running water no soak time.

If you are going to do marathon sessions soak it for 2-3 min and then lap.

After keep with the same method when honing.

Interesting! I saw a couple of videos of people holding the stone in hand and i aways thought they were showing off or perhaps it was for video purposes! I am def going to try it!

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Originally Posted by robert2286

Interesting! I saw a couple of videos of people holding the stone in hand and i aways thought they were showing off or perhaps it was for video purposes! I am def going to try it!

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I felt the same way the first time I saw a video of Mastro Livi honing with the stones in hand. He was taking his different stones out of his water buckets, holding in his left hand and doing 10 or 20 laps on it and moving onto the next stone in the progression.

At the time I sort of watched and thought to myself

"wow! It would be nice to be that skilled at honing some day"

At the time I was watching Lynn Abrams' videos on honing, and he sits at a table with the stone on a stand, I figured that was the easiest way to learn to hone, but to my astonishment, when I decided to try holding the stone in hand, the act of honing became much more natural and my blade just sort of glided over the stone like it never had before.

It was definitely a turning point for me with regards to honing, I set my first bevel with my stone in hand, and polished my first edge to the best of my current abilities with my stone in hand. I can't wait to continue the journey and get better and better at it as time goes on.

While I am still very new to honing, I find hand holding the stones, regardless of size, far more comfortable and I think it makes my touch more consistent. If feedback through one hand is a good thing, then two hands should be twice as good. True or not, it feels like I have tactical feedback on pressure and keeping the spine flat, that I don't get when the stones are on the stand.

That said, an 8x3 Zulu Grey is pretty heavy!!

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Originally Posted by MikekiM

While I am still very new to honing, I find hand holding the stones, regardless of size, far more comfortable and I think it makes my touch more consistent. If feedback through one hand is a good thing, then two hands should be twice as good. True or not, it feels like I have tactical feedback on pressure and keeping the spine flat, that I don't get when the stones are on the stand.

That said, an 8x3 Zulu Grey is pretty heavy!!

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very true about the tractile feedback in both hands, i couldn't agree more, and the stones definitely get heavy after a while hah

Ok... So i tried it and i have to say... I was nervous... So i waited to do it with my 8,000 grit and then 12000 Chinese stone since they are more forgiving! And i have to say... I do like it! Stone in hand its pretty awesome! I dont know if i would set bevels with the stone on hand method but i do use this method for the rest of the honing process...

Agreed, I was also very nervous at first...but it quickly felt more and more natural...I have tried setting a bevel on a 1k and 4k with the stone in hand and it was "do-able" but I do prefer to put the stone in the stand for that part.

The rest of the honing process goes like butter though with the stone in hand...

Glad you gave it a try and found it to work! New things are always nerve racking, but fun!

Here's how I hone in hand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYyUKPJ92T8

I missed this thread when it started.
I always hand hold my stones, have been doing it that way for a couple of years.
I use the Naniwa superstones with the bases along with Nortons, Chosera, and various naturals.
They all work fine.

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Originally Posted by Badgister

Here's how I hone in hand.

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The person in the video (is it you, Badgister?) is very quick! A very nice video though. I wish there was some way to download it and save it to disk. Thanks for sharing this.

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Originally Posted by bruseth

The person in the video (is it you, Badgister?) is very quick! A very nice video though. I wish there was some way to download it and save it to disk. Thanks for sharing this.

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you could use something like this....
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...ownloadhelper/

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Originally Posted by Boarder277

At the time I was watching Lynn Abrams' videos on honing, and he sits at a table with the stone on a stand, I figured that was the easiest way to learn to hone, but to my astonishment, when I decided to try holding the stone in hand, the act of honing became much more natural and my blade just sort of glided over the stone like it never had before.

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I certainly can't speak for Lynn, but maybe somebody like him, who hones so many razors, is better off sitting at a table. I would think that holding stones in your hands would get extremely tiring after honing all day, so it would be better letting the table hold your stone. That seems to make sense, doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by bruseth

I certainly can't speak for Lynn, but maybe somebody like him, who hones so many razors, is better off sitting at a table. I would think that holding stones in your hands would get extremely tiring after honing all day, so it would be better letting the table hold your stone. That seems to make sense, doesn't it?

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yes that certainly makes sense...it actually does get very tiring standing at the sink, holding the stone in hand while honing even 1 razor haha

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Originally Posted by ecormier

you could use something like this....
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...ownloadhelper/

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Thanks for the advice, ecormier, I will try it. When I'm on my Mac (Apple computer) I have something like that to save videos. Just needed something similar in the Windows world.

Thanks again for your suggestion, it's very much appreciated.