Setting A Bevel

I'm trying to set a bevel on a Gong Razor Solingen Germany, I bought this on eBay and it has been cleaned and polished but in doing this the seller has completely blunted the edge. I've tried to move this forward but could it take more than 200 laps on a Naniwa SS 1000 grit to start to produce and edge? Also should the razor be capable of cutting forearm hairs off the bevel setting stage? This is the third razor I've ever honed, the first 2 produced a reasonable shave this morning so I'm hoping that my technique is ok.

It seems that any time I've set the bevel on a razor that I've sanded and polished it does take some doing. I can't count laps, my doctor says I have AD somethinger other. Before you move from the bevel setting you should be cutting arm hair. How much effort it takes in an indicator as well. As my bevel starts to takes shape my strokes get lighter. I'm no pro, but thats how I do it.

Thanks Shaun that gives me the reassurance to continue and you've cleared up the Arm hair test as well I think I moved to quickly from the 1000 Naniwa for one of the razors I've honed but that's why I bought some cheap ones to learn on. I'll go back and see if I can improve the edge on that one

I have dmt for blades like that. Its a slippery stroke though as you have to take out the deep scratches with a 1k afterwards. It sometime seems like it goes faster, but maybe it only seems that way! Lol.

Thanks Bill I've seen a lot of mentions on here about DMT what is it and can I get it here in the UK?

Any time I have gotten a super sharp edge in the end it was because I spent enough time on the 1k to get the edge easily cutting arm hair. The bevel is the foundation of your edge, if it is weak, your edge will reflect that. I have never used a DMT but what Bill is saying makes perfect sense to me.

It really helps to have a loupe or some sort of magnifier . Then you can see what is happening as it happens. You should be able to shave off a 1k. Not more than once though :<0)

I'd have to go along with what RezDog is saying as that is what I do also when setting a bevel. I have also used a DMT plate on a couple of really bad blades and like Bill says it takes a lot of work to get those deep scratches out that the DMT leaves. For me using a DMT is a desperation move. You can also use a marker pen on the bevel to see how you are doing visually as far as getting the two sides of the bevel to meet all along the edge.

Bob

Thanks Bob,
The idea of the marker can I just check this out with you. If you mark all along the bevel both sides when the marker pen disappears this means the bevel is the same all along the length. Similar to marking the hone with a pencil before lapping?

Hint:

When the edge and bevel needs serious work and you need to bring in the DMT or a very low grit hone those deep scratches are a probability.
If you use a higher angle aka adding 2 layers tape you can lessen that problem, this doesn't allow those deep scratches to cut very low (Or is that high :shrug: ) into the bevel..
Then when you drop the razor back down in angle and set the actual shaving bevel those deep scratches should come right out :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anthony1954

Thanks Bob,
The idea of the marker can I just check this out with you. If you mark all along the bevel both sides when the marker pen disappears this means the bevel is the same all along the length. Similar to marking the hone with a pencil before lapping?

---

To me it means that the bevel runs out to the edge on both sides but it may not mean the bevel edges have actually met, if you get what I mean. You may need further honing on the bevel setting hone to get the two to meet and form one continuous edge. It is just a way to make sure you have a uniform continuous edge so when they do meet the meeting will not be hit and miss. Checking by cutting arm hair seems to work best for me to confirm that the two edges of the bevel have met.

Bob

OP really great advise in this thread so far. I'm hesitant to even post with the talent before me. Rather than using the DMT I started using a 400 grit stone and always double tape for restoration and bevel setting on poor edges. I'm still really new at this but have found success pretty early. For me spending time on getting the bevel set right makes everything else fall in place.

I'd really recommend some hone mentoring and the educational videos here and on YouTube. It will triple your learning curve speed. Using a 30X loupe and felt markers have really helped me.

Next question. Brand new Dovo basic which this novice thought would be almost shave ready.
Could it take some time to get the bevel to meet right across the blade?
Also do you sometimes get one side that sets the bevel straight across before the other side and if so how would you hone this blade?

Hone it evenly on both sides. And it may set fast or take a long time.

I use a Naniwa 220 many times when this type of problem comes up. Typically, I will use a layer of tape although sometimes not. I find that you don't need that much pressure, but it can take a while. The Naniwa is not as aggressive as the DMT but cuts very well and sets a nice foundation for the Chosera 1k which knocks out the 220 scratch marks pretty well.

Glen's point on the scratch marks high on the bevel is well taken and you should make sure you don't use much pressure when using more aggressive stones to prevent this. I haven't gone to two layers of tape although the 1K will take care of the secondary bevel from using the one or two layers of tape pretty easily I believe. If you start to see wearing through the tape, replace it and put a new piece on.

Have fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anthony1954

Next question. Brand new Dovo basic which this novice thought would be almost shave ready.
Could it take some time to get the bevel to meet right across the blade?
Also do you sometimes get one side that sets the bevel straight across before the other side and if so how would you hone this blade?

---

A photo of both sides of the blade would be helpful to see what is going on. It is hard to visualize what you are saying.

Bob

Factory edge could be good or bad! Hard to tell crooked spines and short toes from pictures though. Ive seen a few dovo bests factory edges(not as many as Lynn has LOL) and most are ok but some are horrible.

Lets try this another way then. Is the bevel a uniform width on both sides? I am going to guess that on one side there is a spot that is wider than the the rest of the bevel on that side. On the opposite side bevel there is a spot corresponding to the wider part part that is missing the hone. I dunno, could be a warped/twisted spine/blade. Photos would show what the two bevels looked like though.

It should not take much to bring a factory edge to shave readiness but then again there are quality control lapses at any factory.

Bob

Bob

OK I've given up with this now. I've managed to hone up to shave readiness several vintage razors but probably more by luck than skill. I kept seeing the bevel partly setting then loosing it as I progressed.
Now I think that as the Dovo was brand new I should have started on a higher grit that the 1000. Also watching the honing videos again I think I may be using too much pressure particularly on the higher grit hones. I tried to take a picture both without and with a 10x loupe but you wouldn't have been able to discern anything from them.
Also I find it really hard to just use one hand when honing particularly on the back stroke up the hone, so this is what makes me think the pressure is too much and that's why the bevel never really forms right across on this new Dovo, but it's strange that really blunt vintage straights that I've done are now shaving. I've sent the Dovo off for some professional help fearing that I may have totally trashed it but we'll see.
I've sent for one of those USB microscopes because again from the threads it seems that you definitely need to know what's going on at the edge particularly when learning. I won't give up totally but I'll limit myself to the cheaper end of vintage straights until everything drops into place.
One last thing tried one of the vintage razors back on the 5000, 8000 and 12000 but hardly touching the stones, believe it's much better as it now really pops the few hairs I've got left on my arm!

I'm no expert. I never use pressure except in the initial bevel setting. I would describe it as razor weight and feather light strokes. Before I finish on the 1K the last series of strokes are feather weight. My description may be poor but my bevels turn out. As I progress through my hones it is not with pressure. The edge on a razor is a very brittle and delicate item.

Shaun,
Thanks again I'm now convinced that it's my technique I'm almost positive that I've been using too much pressure particularly with using two hands where you'll probably apply pressure without realising it. Also I think I may have been wrong to compare bevels on a brand new razor with some of the vintage ones I've been trying. The reason being I think the bevel on an older razor would be bigger than on a brand new one due to wearing with age. So I may have set the bevel on the new Dovo without realising it and then carried on honing until it disappeared again!!
I seem to be getting more feel from the stones as I do more the slight suction is noticeable now when before maybe I didn't realise it was there.
Anyway onward and upward as they say!

Pressure imo wouldn't affect the sharpness though unless you are flexing the blade. Smoothness definitely though as that pressure will increase the abrasiveness of whatever hone you are using. Now don't get me wrong, heavy pressure is not good or necessary but I maintain a light pressure throughout with the exception of the bevel set process where I use moderate pressure. The amount of swarf will tell you how much steel you are removing. Clean the stone often as heavy swarf may lead to slurry dulling where there are so many particles on the top of the hone that the edge keeps banging into. And don't hone with puddles of water on top of the hone, wet but no standing water. And make sure the hones are flat. Heavy pressure may cause excessive dishing. If you continue to have trouble, I can either hone it for you or set the bevel and let you finish it for postage.

There will always be a few razors that will give you a hard time honing them be they used or new. It is good to stop when you get a bit frustrated too. I doubt very much that you ruined that Dovo either. It would be interesting to hear from whomever you sent it to whether or not the blade/spine had a slight warp/twist to it. Hang in there it does get better.

Bob

Bill
Appreciate your help and advice also I'm in the UK and there don't seem to be many Brits on here as I think a one to one lesson from someone who knows how to hone would be my answer.
You're point about the water and rinsing is a great one and I'll make sure I do that in future. I also think as mentioned before that I should have started on a higher grit particularly as the razor was new out of the box but not shave ready.
Although your further advice would be appreciated as I'm only guessing would you yourself always start on at least a 1000grit for a new razor to prepare the bevel?
I also think once I can see what's happening close up this should help me further

Well the blade dictates what it needs. The hardest part of it is determining how far off from shave ready you are. Generally I would start any blade that comes to me on a 3k chosera. Then the results of the scratch patterns will tell me where to go, which could be up or down. I have a chosera 600 that I do use rather frequently when the need arises. If somehow you can spend some time with someone that can hone, that will really get you on a good path. I would say use the magic marker test to see where you are. Keep your stroke consistent throughout the honing process as your stroke will grind into the blade how you hone. For example a blade honed on its side heel leading would not be easy to touch up doing straight laps as the wear on the blade is different. You may consider using 2 hands(not for pressure, but to make sure the blade is flat to the hone). If you are removing metal at different places, you will take a long time and lose a lot of steel.