The bevel under magnification (pictorial)

Noticed a few ?'s as to what bevels & edges should look like under a loupe / m'scope.
Used a Veho 20-200x m'sope for pics. Can't explain the blue tinge in some pics but might be that some were taken at night. :shrug:

Well first up, a pretty bevel is not so critical but the edge is :) I sometimes aim for a cosmetically polished bevel but not always. It seems to be beneficial on stainless razors... Sometimes, but again, not always.

Below is a Dovo stainless that finally shaved well without a Nihonto grade polish :p tho I did use Jnats to finish.

Main damage at toe is a big chip but also notice the shiny areas. This may well be from heavy stropping but regardless it shows the edge does not reflect light evenly. This is the visual cue that things are not right & is the guide for all stages in the progression. Physical cutting tests of hair or whatever will support what you see but any test can be misleading if done in isolation. I suggest a multi test approach. A glinty edge can still cut hair due to it's raggedness like a serrated knife. Ideally the finished edge must cut with minimal resistance.

First pic is the damage as discussed above & at 20x magAttachment 149941

A fair bite into the bevel from "rinsing the blade" .
Porcelain & steel are a razors enemy where paper &/or towels are 'friendlies'.
Notice the shiny bits on the edge as previously mentioned.

Honing was started on a Shapton Pro 320 with only one layer of tape using a diamond plate slurry. This resulted in some scratchy overruns but they do look worse @ 200x.
3 layers of tape for chip removal is always a better approach but here we are warts n' all. This stage was very quick. 5 mins or less.
Next stone was 1k Shapton Pro, again very little time spent here. Just enough to gain some smoothness. I didn't record any of these stages but my aim was to focus on bevel set & finish not repair. Soooo many pics anyway.

Pics here are from Shapton 1500 grit @ 200x mag.
First pic is the toe & looking ok for 1500 grit & 2nd pic is just forward of heel. Notice in pic 2 the shaded ragged area.
This is remnant from 320grit /1k. Toe is not bad. Heel bevel is not complete tho starting to cut arm hair.
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Pic 3 is also near the heel & shows more roughness.

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Pic 4 shows improvement from about 40 very light strokes just on water no slurry on 1500 grit. Moved on to 2k after this.

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Next 2 pics are @ 200x.
Shapton Pro 2k with slurry. Again toe & heel.

A few slight glints at the toe. Time to move on.
Heel area , slight improvement on toothiness.

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200x pics.
Shapton Pro 2k with water only. Toe & heel.
There is a slight wire at the toe a little down from top of pic or I touched the m'scope with the edge. :o
Heel is shaping up ok.

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Same 2k pics with slurry again but at 20x .


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And 2k with water only at 20x.
Even at 20x heel is still showing some light reflecting of the very edge, lower left corner of pic. The cue I mentioned before that all is not perfect yet

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Moving on to 5k Shapton Pro ,water only. @ 200x mag
Still some shiny bits on the edge.

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Same view @20x
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After 5k moved onto a Tsushima Jnat as an experiment as it's new & had an unknown place in progressions yet.
From the pics I would say it took me a ways back so maybe better suited after 1k or even as a 1k or maybe best left for knives but here are the 4 pics.
Mind you a ragged appearance in an edge does not always equate to a rough shave when it comes to naturals so I moved onto a finer stone.

First 2 @ 200x & then next 2 @ 20x

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20x
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Next stone is a Yaginoshima Asagi but I used it with the Tsushima Nagura.
This combination has worked for me in the past as a mid progression stone post 1k.

The raggedness has lessened at the heel especially & the toe shows a slight wire forming.
These are @ 200x

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Now for those that want to have nice polished hazy bevels, below is what can happen if you don't stop when the edge tells you to .
The wire/burr has worsened at the expense of a polished bevel.

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A way to reduce that burr is to continue to a finisher but here I did 10 strokes on 0.5 diamond spray on felt. I just want to confirm that this was done for the purpose of showing what a wire edge looks like. I do not seek to create them as a rule.

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Finishing stone was a Shobu-Dani Asagi with a light self slurry.
Just toe pics here @ 200x
Edge is getting shiny again but not too drastic.

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Tried a few circles. Slightly better.

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Canvas strop @ 200x mag
Whole edge is getting burnished & a tiny micro bevel -like appearance is normal at the right angle in the right light

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Leather strop @ 200x
Not perfect looking but cuts armhair very smoothly. Shave test was acceptable but not optimal for me.
A little tweaking with the finisher i.e. 4-5 strokes during the shave got the desired results.
Haven't added any pics of that final edge as there was no obvious change under the scope to my eyes.
Just goes to show the shave test is the ultimate test but magnification is a great aid especially in early to mid stages.


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Very interesting! thanks for putting this together. Usually i dont really see much in high magnification pictures but here you can actually see the progress, well done!

Thanks for your time and effort on that post! That really does give me an idea of what is occurring when honing and what to look for.

Very helpful to see these photos to help understand some things to look for throughout the honing process. Much appreciated!

Oz,

This is a really good post and I think it will help a lot of members. Pretty labor intensive, thanks for the time and effort!! :tu

Howard :)

Thought I might add some random pics as the thread goes.

Here are 2 finished & stropped Puma edges. This level of shininess at the edge is acceptable & both razors tested perfectly as you would expect from Pumas.

The edges however look totally different . First looks rough & even has a microchip yet the 2nd looks smooth.
So as I hinted before the shave test is still the best test. & yes I did clear the microchip.

"You can't judge honey by looking at the bee." Thanx Bo Diddley. :)

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Great work. Will be very helpful. Cheers Oz

I just remembered I did a similar pictorial on a damaged Iwasaki a while back. It's in the "Advanced" honing forum but a bunch more pics for those interested.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...e-restore.html

Oz, on the microchip - how much does that register on the "ignorance is bliss" scale? When is a microchip an issue, and when is it just a natural part of an edge? (under sufficient magnification the whole edge looks chipped, right?).

Take that one in your first photo as a case in point. Left "untreated", what would be the ultimate outcome with that in terms of shaving?

James.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

Oz, on the microchip - how much does that register on the "ignorance is bliss" scale? When is a microchip an issue, and when is it just a natural part of an edge? (under sufficient magnification the whole edge looks chipped, right?).

Take that one in your first photo as a case in point. Left "untreated", what would be the ultimate outcome with that in terms of shaving?

James.

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On the IIB scale I'd give it a 9.8. :)
I believe a microchipped razor can be a big issue for those with sensitive skin especially if there are so many chips the edge looks like a Spyderco.
Chips visible to the naked eye should be gone but if they'r only visible at 200x you can easily get by. As you say under sufficient magnification an edge can look pretty rough. I think it was Verhoeven ? that showed stropping can improve microchips. Generally if I can barely see them at 8x the razor may shave quite well but I will remove them if possible. The steel often determines if it is possible. With rusty old steel a compromise is best case scenario sometimes.

The first pic shows the edge is folded over as well as chipped so this will result in a scratched strop &/or face. It was also close to half the size of the bevel so not reasonable to expect improvement on the strop.

Great photo-tutorial, Oz!

Regards,
Neil

Reading this thread reminded me of a razor I just looked at under a 30x loupe. The toe was rolled over and it was quite noticeable under 30x. I must have been way to aggressive when stropping since I can't remember doing anything else. Just with I could take a picture of it. Great thread.

Thank you for taking the time to post. Very nicely done, interesting and informative. Best Regards Ken

Thanks for taking the time to post! Definitely good info.

Regards,

JC

It's good to see what is being talked about. Thanks Oz

Thank you OZ for this vivid visual account of the honing process. My USB scope stopped working years ago and I miss the up close views. We all appreciate your effort.

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Originally Posted by mrsell63

Thank you OZ for this vivid visual account of the honing process. My USB scope stopped working years ago and I miss the up close views. We all appreciate your effort.

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Thanx Jerry. It has its place but 99% of the time I just use a low powered loupe at the bench. Would be a challenge to photograph but the greater variety of angles that can be viewed provide plenty of info with no real compromise. A USB scope is not a necessity.