A lot of hones and little knowledge.

I'm new, but I bought identical Dovo Prima Klang carbon steel straight razors. One of which I had professionally honed so I have an idea of what 'Sharp' is. I want to hone/sharpen the twin Prima Klang, and of course keen to learn. I have the kit needed(Strop, balsa strop with crox) I also went and bought 3 quality hones, namely naniwa #4000, #8000 and #10,000. So today I attempted to hone the twin razor. It is sharp but not as sharp as the pro model. I used the method used by Lynn, (Circles etc). This razor cuts hair off my leg no problem,but the thumb pad test is certainly not like the pro model and I know it could be improved and that it is my technique and not anything else. Could someone out there, give me a simple recipe to shave readiness, using the equipment I have. I have no problem if I am better off with a 1K as well. So please guys, if you could spare a few lines, I'm a little confused. I could be over-honing (likely). I'd hate to admit I'm technically challenged here but sadly I am. Cheers Bobski

Welcome Bobski, all I can say is practice and study. I haven't used Naniwas so I'll let someone else give you pointers on them. My only recommendation is that with practice and patience you will se a big difference.

bobski,

The Dovo Prima Klangs are lovely shavers :)

Use a Sharpie on the edge to see if you are 'clearing' all the cutting edge. Also, use a very light touch when honing the razor - it is very easy to distort extra-hollow blades with too much pressure.

Good luck :)

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ

Have you shaved with it yet. Even though the tpt isn't the same as the pro honed razor it might be closer than you think. Few of us can attain the level that the pros achieve, but we can still hone our razors to shave comfortably. Honing takes time to learn and there is no simple answer. That said, keep at it. It's fun and frustrating at the same time.

Yea, I wish there was a simple recipe for achieving shave readiness but there just isn't as far as I can see. One thing you did not mention was whether or not you lapped/flattened your hones with something like a DMT. Starting with a lapped hone helps and it cleans old swarf up too from previous honing sessions.

A jewelers loupe of around 30X really helps you see where you are with the edge. So does using a black marker on the edge.

The biggest thing for me was to learn to stay on the bevel setting hone long enough to make sure it was really set before going up the progression. For me that is checked by whether or not the blade easily cuts arm hair and confirmed by what I see with the jewelers loupe. When I think it is done I will do a few more strokes as insurance. The vast majority of time spent on the hones is on the bevel set stage with later stages requiring successively fewer strokes as you go up the progression.

The amount of weight/force/pressure on the hone is hard to learn too. At the bevel set stage I use a bit of weight easing up on the final strokes. You would not believe how little weight is needed when I say a bit of weight. When I say easing up I mean a feather touch of weight where you literally are just skimming across the hone.

Take what I have said for what it is worth coming from a novice honer who thinks this is what he has learned. Honing has a long and twisted learning curve from what I can see of it.

Bob

If you haven't tried it yet, I found that pyramid honing is very helpful on my 4/8/16K Shaptons. I use the following routine:

Setting the bevel on the 1K, refining it for a while on the 4K. Then:
- 10 strokes 4K
- 10 strokes 8K
- 5 strokes 4K
- 5 strokes 8K
- 3 strokes 4K
- 3 strokes 8K
- 1 stroke 4K
- 3 strokes 8K
- 1 stroke 4K
- 5 strokes 8K

- 5 strokes 16K
- 3 strokes 8K
- 3 strokes 16K
- 1 stroke 8K
- 3 strokes 16K
- 1 stroke 8K
- 5 strokes 16K

As you can see, the 4K/8K pyramid is almost the same as the 8K/16K pyramid. It prevents overhoning and still reaches the very sharp edge that can be expected from my hones. I recommend you try the same on your hones and see what's what. Also, good stropping technique greatly improves the feel of the TPT, you may want to search for the thread called Stroptober and learn more about it.

For bevel setting, I think moderate pressure is helpful. Meaning I gauge it by the amount of swarf that ends up on the stone. Try using 1 finger at the toe(2 hands) while you hone, not for pressure, just to keep the blade perfectly flat on the hone.

Another good thing is to take a sharpie, magic marker, and mark the bevel to make sure your making full contact with the bevel from heel to point. If your honing stroke needs correction the marker will show you. I wipe it off once I see it is good, before going any further. Better to wipe it before it is finished than after. I use lighter fluid because that is what I have. Alcohol works too from what I hear.

Magnification, whether a 30x eye loupe, a microscope @ 40x , like I use is very helpful as well. When I learned to hone I had a bit of the RAD and acquired quite a few ebay and antique store blades cheap, but in good shape. This way I had something to practice with and reserved my "good" razors for shaving until I was confident in my honing. I practiced quite a bit on the lesser razors to avoid messing up the good stuff.

One layer of electrical tape is also helpful to protect the spine. Circles remove more metal than X strokes but if you have the patience it is good to go with X strokes until you become proficient. Circles are great for bevel setting but in inexperienced hands can be 'too much of a good thing.' Like Laurens said, pyramids are great for beginners. I am no longer a beginner but still use the pyramid method because it works so well for me. Anyway .......... :gl:

Make sure the stones are properly lapped as Bob advised. I found that there was some kind of factory finish on my Naniwa that had to be lapped off before it was of best use.

1 k is ALmOST a must. With what you have stay at the 4k until you can shave with it. If the bevel is not set this may take what seems like forever but you have to use what you got. 1 layer of tape is a good idea to save your spine and will shorten the process (maybe not enough for you to notice). The bevel set is the key to sharp. If it's not there then you are wasting time with all the other hones. Cheap practice razors will keep you from crying if you really mess up. Like there others say a loupe is nice because you can see what your doing as you do it. You can lap those hones with sand paper and on a piece of glass. check out methods for doing that in the wiki.
Honing has a learning curve just like using a straight so just pay attention to what your doing and keep at it. You'll get it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 10Pups

1 k is ALmOST a must. With what you have stay at the 4k until you can shave with it. If the bevel is not set this may take what seems like forever but you have to use what you got. 1 layer of tape is a good idea to save your spine and will shorten the process (maybe not enough for you to notice). The bevel set is the key to sharp. If it's not there then you are wasting time with all the other hones. Cheap practice razors will keep you from crying if you really mess up. Like there others say a loupe is nice because you can see what your doing as you do it. You can lap those hones with sand paper and on a piece of glass. check out methods for doing that in the wiki.
Honing has a learning curve just like using a straight so just pay attention to what your doing and keep at it. You'll get it.

---

Good advice -- emphasis on "stay at the 4k until you can shave with it." It's just a personal thing, but 90% of my honing happens at the 4k level.

First you have to acknowledge that you could easily put decades worth of hone wear on your razor while practicing until you get it right. If that doesn't turn you off, then keep reading.

First start on the 4k and do x-strokes or circle method. Do this until all sections of the blade cut arm hair with zero effort and the bevel is polished At the very edge from toe to heel. The edge should feel very sticky to the thumb The 4k should work just fine on a new hollow ground razor.

The last 10% of the job is on your 8k and 10 stones. You can do 15 strokes on 8k then 10 strokes on 10k. No tpt at this point. Just strop and shave.

If that doesn't work then there are any number of things that might have gone wrong. At that point only speculation and practice will help you.

The other option is to send that second razor to Lynn. You will get it shave ready with the minimum of effort and no unnecessary wear on the blade.

Michael

Bob, first determine if the bevel is set. Here is a good video to test this.

Chances are it is not, in which case you will have to set the bevel. It can be done use the 4k but it may take some time. There are good videos on honing and bevel setting.

Really there is no recipe for honing as the work needed is dictated by the edge condition.

Once the bevel is set, both bevels are meeting in a straight sharp edge, it is a matter of straighten the edge by removing the existing stria progressively, with finer grit stones to further refine the edge. Each progression removes the stria of the previous stone.

75=80 percent of the work and honing problems, is setting the bevel. If the bevel is not set, you can polish all you want and not affect the edge, because there is no edge.

Thanks Laurens, I have looked at the many good ideas here on SRP. I have tried your pyramid method. I have a nice edge, not scary sharp. but a smooth effective 'sharp'. I like also because it is repeatable. I know that next time in a month or two, I have a template for re-newing it to shave ready. You give me the steps, and they are easy to follow. I am certain I'm a prolific over honer. It's in my nature. (Eg, the doctor says take two tablets, I take three! The SRP boys say 10 strokes I do 15!

This time I followed yours to the letter despite the temptation of over-doing it. So, lovely edge, passes the thumb pad and HHT fine. I don't do thumbnail because I see no logical reason why you'd want to dull your blade to prove it's sharp. It'l like taking a poison you intend giving to an enemy to see if will kill the person......crazy. Have a good xmas from dowm town Australia.