Buttery feel off of a 12K? Huh?!

Gentlemen, I had a curious shave.

After about 4 months of regular use my Thiers-Issard was not up to snuff. Thought I'd bring it back to the stones. I've always felt the steel on a TI a little harder than most, so I bring it down to the Naniwa SS 8k for about 15 light laps, then up to the Naniwa SS 12K for 10 light followed by 10 feather light.

Interesting, rather than the crisp sharpness I usually get, it felt...like a Coti? My first pass usually reduces about 85% of my stubble, with another 10% and 5% on the following two passes - the first shave doubles for how I usually "shave test" my edges. Anyway, this reduction was about 70%, 15%, 15%...and didn't really feel all that sharp. Not tugging, but definitely a little more work. That being said, I rinsed off to a great smooth face with absolutely no tingle with aftershave. My face felt wonderful throughout the day. I thought it might have been poor prep, but the follow up shave was pretty much the same.

I'm not complaining, but am curious about the edge. The bevel's sound, as indicated by the comfortable shave (and it was only a touch up) but neither an 8K or 12K edge should feel "buttery." I'll probably keep it as is, or maybe try a few licks on the 12K again...but was wondering if these clues were indicative of another issue? Does it sound like I didn't quite remove the 8K striations? I'll keep playing with it, just thought I'd throw it out there to hear if anyone else has an idea...

Did you check that the edge is consistent all over its length?

A 12K should not provide a buttery feel? If you think you need a 16K or a 30K to provide this you are misinformed. A 12K quality stone in the right hands will get you to shaving nirvana. For that matter an 8K should just about do it too.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

A 12K should not provide a buttery feel? If you think you need a 16K or a 30K to provide this you are misinformed. A 12K quality stone in the right hands will get you to shaving nirvana. For that matter an 8K should just about do it too.

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Whew Thanks Nelson, I thought I was the only one slightly confused with this thread...

I read it twice then waited to post because I was sure I misunderstood it,, I concur a 8k should get you a great shave a 12k should make it even smoother...
Everyone's face is different and I am all for using different finishers once you learn them, but there seems to be an acceptance that Synthetic hones are going to be "Crisp" feeling, myself I think you are creating a self-fulfilling outcome.. Getting the edge to fit your face and the steel takes practice it really is just that simple...

"No amount of money spent on a Stone can replace the time it takes learning to use it"

Sorry Guys, I did a poor job of explaining.

I always get a sharp, crisp finish after an 8K and a 12K. This time I got a buttery feel off of the 12K...and new something was wrong.
I did get a good shave, so feel the bevel is set.

I guess I am still lost,, :shrug:

The Naniwa SS system is exactly my goto set up for those Hard as Hell TI blades, they create a really silky smooth edge when I do my job correctly..

From your posts it seems you are getting better using the Naniwas on the TI, basically you are taking the edge to a new level, but heck if I know..
I am not quite sure what you are asking I guess..

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

From your posts it seems you are getting better using the Naniwas on the TI, basically you are taking the edge to a new level, but heck if I know..

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That's kind of what I was thinking too - that your honing technique has evolved to a point where you're noticing a tangible difference. Now the tricky bit (assuming you like the new buttery-ness, will be remembering what the heck you did differently this time around. :)

Attachment 150615Attachment 150616

It is surprising what pressure can do and how hard it is to explain what and how it works.

This is one of the best explanations I have seen, posted here long ago by Seraphim.

Yes, the 12k is the standard.
.

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Originally Posted by Cangooner

... that your honing technique has evolved to a point where you're noticing a tangible difference. Now the tricky bit (assuming you like the new buttery-ness, will be remembering what the heck you did differently this time around. :)

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nothing quite like that feeling...

discovering a buttery edge developed at your hand on your stones,

and then trying to remember EXactly how you did it. DoH!:gaah:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

..."No amount of money spent on a Stone can replace the time it takes learning to use it"

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Perhaps the wisest, simplest advice I've heard all year when it comes to hones / stones and honing...profoundness personified!

WP34 :tu

Ok, thanks for the feedback - I guess I was misunderstanding what a 12K should feel like.
I've gotten them wicked sharp, but only so-so when it comes to comfort (can't shave daily)...this was comfortable and close, what I thought was the hallmark of a coticule.

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Originally Posted by MWS

Ok, thanks for the feedback - I guess I was misunderstanding what a 12K should feel like.
I've gotten them wicked sharp, but only so-so when it comes to comfort (can't shave daily)...this was comfortable and close, what I thought was the hallmark of a coticule.

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hallmark of a coticule used properly. I didn't understand about pressures and slurries when i started with my coticule. BEFORE learning these things, i was un-impressed with my coti results, and was satisfied to shave off my 8k. But i'm sorta new at it.

Enjoy the butta! (whereever you find it)

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

From your posts it seems you are getting better using the Naniwas on the TI, basically you are taking the edge to a new level, but heck if I know..
I am not quite sure what you are asking I guess..

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While I don't have a complete Naniwa set of hones, I do finish on the Naniwa 12K.

I have the exact same set of stones that I started out with and after having the honor of watching Glen teach in person, my edges got noticeably better!:bow

I do believe that if someone works with the same system time and time again he does get to 'know it' and get consistently good results!!

I'll probably muck up the quote that my good friend pinklather uses but I'll give it a go;

"Beware of the man with one gun as he probably knows how to use it"! :tu

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Originally Posted by MWS

Ok, thanks for the feedback - I guess I was misunderstanding what a 12K should feel like.
I've gotten them wicked sharp, but only so-so when it comes to comfort (can't shave daily)...this was comfortable and close, what I thought was the hallmark of a coticule.

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I'm getting close and comfortable shaves off of many different hones - naniwa, oozuki, thuringian, and many more. Comfortable and close, that's basically what I want from all my razors.

Also don't forget the other half of this equation - the shave. More than likely something has happened on the hone, but you may have done something different in the shave as well, like better prep or stretching, had a better night's sleep (seriously, I've noticed a poor night's sleep can effect my skin and shaves sometimes) etc etc.

On the honing side, pressure, lapping, not lapping, glazing etc....

Variables, there are too many variables! :)

James.

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Originally Posted by MWS

Gentlemen, I had a curious shave.

After about 4 months of regular use my Thiers-Issard was not up to snuff. Thought I'd bring it back to the stones. I've always felt the steel on a TI a little harder than most, so I bring it down to the Naniwa SS 8k for about 15 light laps, then up to the Naniwa SS 12K for 10 light followed by 10 feather light.

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Would this touch-up be sufficient to completely remove the existing edge? I have no idea how "fast" the Naniwa 8k & 12k remove steel, but I am picturing an edge that was somewhat convex from use that has simply been "narrowed" by the touch-up, while the original apex is remaining and still micro-convex.

Is buttery good or bad? I usually use margarine. :)

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Is buttery good or bad? I usually use margarine. :)

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Sir, the feel of bacon fat is what one should strive for...the best of the best. :)

All said above, sometimes I like a 'buttery' edge.ymmv.

If you got a good shave with no irritation what is the trouble? :thinking:

I think you found what a lot of people are searching for! :shrug:

Be happy and don't question the "how could this be? I have heard or thought this is not possible.

ps... Glen has some AWESOME quotes!