Bevel not fully set- Pics

I am hoping this will help to illustrate what we mean when we say 'The bevel must be fully set from heel to toe"

This edge and another much like it just got here for evaluation, I figured some of you might want to see what I look for on the edge before I even try a test shave..
The owner honed this and as you can see the bevels to the outsides of the black marks are nicely formed and polished to a shave ready condition..

These are two spots on the edge where the bevel fades out, there are two spots on one side and one spot on the other like this, I have not figured out the reason yet, but I will when I get the razor on the 1k to re-set the bevel..
Sometimes if the edge is just a touch better then this, it can really make you crazy because the razor will pass tests and actually shave ok, it might start pulling after one pass or only pull in one spot, and often this is the reason why..
You really really want to take the time to make sure that the bevel is fully formed from heel to toe, sometimes that even means you have to give it a little push to get the edge to do what you want it too...
I will try and get pics of the Bevel after I re-set it...

Attachment 150947

Attachment 150946

I hope that gives you a good visual of where the bevel is faded out...

Looking forward to the next step on this... I've had this happen more than once. The bevel looks fine on one side and across the 95% of the other with that rogue 5% in the middle that just isn't hitting the stone. In fact, I thought it was something I was doing in my bevel set stroke that was causing it...

Are there spots on both sides that are in the same place or are all three spots scattered across the sides and length of the edge?

In the case where you have to push the blade to set a section like that, do you then have to push that spot for the rest of the hone progression?

I am finding the bevel set the most frustrating and challenging part of honing.

Subscribing for this thread. I have a few warped razors that drive me crazy and I thought I knew all the theory behind honing warped razors. The bevels look much like the one in the picture.

My cheapest razor was doing something very similar to that.

Took a while to figure out, In the end I got out an optical glass block some food coloring and some oil. By doping the block then sitting the razor on it and flipping it over you can see the contact points.

After looking at how the blade was sitting on the block I found there was a lump in the spine right at the point it meets the tang. This I can only assume was causing the blade to ride high on the initial part of the stroke, then drop. Causing the bevel to miss in the center due to the excess pressure that was applied to the nose.

Excellent pictures of the blade with the bevel not fully set, hopefully you can capture the blade with the bevel fully formed the same way.

This is as close to the same spot as I could manage, I used the same set up for the pic also

Attachment 151180

I started with a MM test to confirm what I already suspected..

When I was taking the first pics the light was coming across the face of the blade, which showed me some imperfections, this lead me to suspect slight variations in the grind thickness rather then a warped blade which is always the first thing that people think.. The thickness variations are actually more common but they should be eliminated during the first couple of honing sessions.. This Hayashi is NOS so they were still present.. Looking at the blade face across a bright light or a bright window can be very revealing for many problems...

The MM test confirmed this, so I did 10 Swooping Japanese X strokes per side to even up the bevel, I killed the edge lightly on the corner of the Chosera 1k and repeated the same operation, then switched to 20 standard X strokes, and ended with 5 finishing strokes on the 1k...

The edge is now ready to move on up the honing ladder

Sorry here are the MM test pics too, same spot there in the middle you can see the MM to the edge, These did not come out as good as I hoped, I caught a shadow there, but you should be able to see the area still


Attachment 151182

An important point here. As Glen said, when you have an issue like this folks figure it's a warped blade. I'd lay even money improper grind is way more common than anyone thinks. You almost never see it discussed here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

An important point here. As Glen said, when you have an issue like this folks figure it's a warped blade. I'd lay even money improper grind is way more common than anyone thinks. You almost never see it discussed here.

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I agree. It's rarely discussed but can be a challenge for new players. With a warp the hone wear on the other side is reversed but with a slight dip in the grind on only one side the other side can be perfectly even. A combination of the 2 is where you start pulling your hair out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

An important point here. As Glen said, when you have an issue like this folks figure it's a warped blade. I'd lay even money improper grind is way more common than anyone thinks. You almost never see it discussed here.

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Stefan alerted me to that fact fairly early on. I'm grateful to have been made aware of it. I've since come across a few that had this issue. Dealing with it properly is always the big question to be answered.

This was one that I sent Glen to evaluate and hone since I was having trouble getting a nice shave, while at the same time it seemed like it was passing tests that usually seem to work for me. I let him know this type of evaluation was at least as valuable to me as getting back a shave ready edge. I had noticed these shallow bevel areas but was unsure of the reason or the method to fix it. Those areas were enough to give a not so perfect shave.

This kind of information is so valuable and just wanted to say thanks again to Glen for giving feedback.

Our So cal meet is coming up and thought about taking it over there but I've got others I can hassle our host with for that :)

Thanks Glen!! These guides and illustrations you do are extremely helpful! I know I value what you put together to help everyone out. Keep up the great work!

Zac

Great post. I love the discussion of Improper grind vs warp.

Michael

Very good post. Thanks Glen.