Questions on Shapton Glass Stones

I have used Shapton glass stones for knives for a few months. I have a set from 500 to 16k for the Edge Pro sharpener. I am very happy with them for knives. Right now I have an 8k bench stone and am using it as my last stone for razors (which I'm learning to sharpen). I'm getting my razors shave ready and get some good shaves with them by using the 8k and then a strop. I've read and been told that an 8k stone is just fine as the final stone before stropping. But a fineer grit like the Norton 12k is icing but a very nice piece of icing. I have ordered a Shapton glass 4k stone to pair with my 8k for razors. I like this because I'll also be using them for knives. I have questions though. The random scratches I've seen mentioned here I have seen on knives also. I have thought when I get them it was probably not spending enough time removing scratches from a previous coarser stone. My random scratches have been anywyere from 1/8" to 1/4" apart with a mirror finish between them. I'll talk about knife edges for a minute because the bevels can be much wider. Let's say a coarse diamond stone leaves scratches deeper than most of the scratches for that grit. Then I use a fine grit or even extra-fine grit stone. When the "normal" scratch pattern from the coarse stone is gone after progressing to an extra-fine grit stone this stone will be abrading the smooth area and since cutting is slower when the surface area is larger it takes a long time to remove enough steel from the smooth area to get to the bottom of the larger scratches. I hope that made sense. I can picture it easier on knivex. The bevels on my razors are very small. Anyway, when I have random scratches after using about any really fine grit stone I have attributed the scratches to one of the coarser stones that aren't as visible until the finer grits make the bevel look good. The good part of the bevel just makes the ugly scratches jump out. Since I didn't see them until I used an 8k stone may not mean they weren't there until I used the 8k stone. They may have been there all along, I just didn't notice them in amongst the "normal" scratch patterns of the other stones. I have not taken the effort to prove or disprove this. It's just a thought I've had.

Lynn uses the Norton 4k and 8k stones on his DVD so if it wasn't for me wanting to use my stones on knives and razors both I probably would have gotten them. But, does anyone have any thoughts on using the Shapton glass 4k and 8k? I may get a finer grit in the future but I have hard, thin leather strops with sprays as low as .1 micron so I hope I don't need a 16k Shapton glass. I would probably NOT go with that stone anyway. There seem to be better alternatives for razors for less money.

Thanks for any help.

Jack
PS edit:
About the scratches. I understand when honing anything under a 4k is only needed when the razor needs restoration or is really dull. This may make my assumption about scratches from 3 grits below in progression mute when dealing with razors. Is this true?

Shapton 4 & 8 are fine for honing razors. I'm thinking, as far as random scratches, that it may be that you're carrying grit from one stone to the other, on the blade I mean. Especially if you're doing pyramids. When I first got into this mess I bought some pro honed razors from the top guys. I found, upon examining them with a microscope (40x) that they had scratch patterns. They were shave ready to the max and that led me to the conclusion that removing scratch patterns wasn't necessary for a shaving edge. Maybe even counter productive. IMHO.

Sometimes I think I go too far when getting into something new. Honing razors is the same I think. The very experienced guys in their posts and in videos seem to have one thing in common. They have a very compact, simple routine. Lynn seems to have more stones than are legal but only uses a very small select set when honing. I am really enjoying shaving this way. Since my interest in knife sharpening has grown when I decided to change to straight razor shaving it was mainly so I could use the razors I honed. I had never honed a razor but had wanted to just because of the higher level of cutting performance needed. I sharpened a razor a couple of months ago and had it evaluated. I was told it was shave ready like a razor honed well and then after a few shaves. Just getting started I was happy with this knowing the edges would get better in time. I think in a few months or a year I may need to have a razor honed for me to compare it to my edges.

I would like to announce that I haven't needed the styptic pencil in 5 or 6 shaves. :) Using the pencil is one skill I mastered QUICK. :)

Jack

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Shapton 4 & 8 are fine for honing razors. I'm thinking, as far as random scratches, that it may be that you're carrying grit from one stone to the other, on the blade I mean. Especially if you're doing pyramids. When I first got into this mess I bought some pro honed razors from the top guys. I found, upon examining them with a microscope (40x) that they had scratch patterns. They were shave ready to the max and that led me to the conclusion that removing scratch patterns wasn't necessary for a shaving edge. Maybe even counter productive. IMHO.

---

Yep, personally, I've never understood this obsession with scratch patterns. I hone my razors so they shave to my standards and couldn't care less about the scratch marks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Yep, personally, I've never understood this obsession with scratch patterns. I hone my razors so they shave to my standards and couldn't care less about the scratch marks.

---

Performance is really the only thing that matters, especially for shaving. My bevels are so narrow that you don't see scratches anyway. Not without examining the edge. But what I've looked at on knife bevels is the scratch pattern can be used to determine the condition of the edge. Smooth or toothy. My 8k Shapton glass leaves a mirror finish with no scratches to the naked eye. That tells me it will leave a very smooth edge. My 500 grit stone will leave a much deeper scratch pattern and that means the edge will be much coarser or "toothy". So I think the same thing would apply to razor edges. But if a razor shaves good that is all that matters. With knives it's a bigger deal because different knives perform better or worse depending on what you want to use the knife to cut. I'm guessing NOBODY wants a toothy edge on their razor. :)

Jack

You could consider storing each hone with its own cleaning supplies to reduce grit cross-contamination potential.