Is one of the Chinese water stones from Woodcraft sufficient for maintenance hones or would I need some lower grit stones as well?
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Is one of the Chinese water stones from Woodcraft sufficient for maintenance hones or would I need some lower grit stones as well?
You can get a good understanding of Chinese water stones (PHIG, C12K) by reading these threads. I think they will answer your question better than waiting for individual responses to this thread.
As for the answer to the OP,,,IMO, yes they are,,,but then again, what is your definition of "maintenance" ?
Chinese Guangxi Hones - Straight Razor Place Wiki
Possibly, all natural stones are unique as to composition and grit size. Many have used these stones with good results but some are better than others. It is questionable if the grit size is as advertised, few naturals are, but does not mean they cannot produce an very shaveable edge.
While they are well priced, a known synthetic will produce known results.
If you do purchase, get the larger stone, especially if you are new to honing. It will make your life easier. There are many threads on this stone.
Make sure to lap the stone smooth and flat, Loose Silicone carbide or Wet & Dry paper beginning with 220 up to 600 until smooth with no scratches. Then prep the stone face with hard flat steel, like a kitchen knife, 2-300 laps with pressure. The smoother you can get the face the better your results will be.
2-3 drops of Smith honing solution on a flooded stone will yield best results.
Thanks for the link Hirlau. By maintenance I just mean refreshing an edge when my CROX pasted balsa strop isn't enough anymore.
Euclid:
Thanks for the tips. I was planning to lap the stone but I didn't know to prep it with a knife first. I do have a nice high carbon German chef knife that's been a wee dull despite laps on a diamond steel.
Yes, they will refresh an edge,,,but I have never used pastes , nor do I have a desire to use pastes,,,so I cannot guide you to a refreshed edge, post CROX paste. I'll let some of the guys here that use pastes , give you a final answer to that question.
How about a departure from conventional wisdom.. how about using the stone INSTEAD of the crox for maintenance? Consider, why must you go to the stone, as you put it, "when my CROX pasted balsa strop isn't enough anymore" anyway? The reason is that the crox stropping is rounding the edge - it is becoming more and more convex with each treatment, IOW that theoretical V-shape is becoming more and more U-shaped. It is not a sudden degredation of the edge, rather you just realize one day that the shaves have been getting worse and worse and that this is the day when you've had enough.
Instead of putting up with that, you can give it a preemptive touch up every five or six shaves, strop normally on plain leather and enjoy smoother, cleaner shaving every day. IMO, crox stropping is best used after honing for putting that final increment of keeness on an already shave ready edge but a stone is far better for maintenance.
Five or six light laps on a 12K Naniwa or 16K Shapton every five or six shaves will maintain an edge without ever needing to hone the razor fully. (You can still hit the crox for a FEW laps after the touch up.) The PHIG or C12K can be used instead but be aware that they vary widely in hardness/fineness. You would probably be better off buying one from a member so you know what you are getting instead of taking a chance buying from a retailer or off eBay.
The good PHIG's are quite slow so you would likely need to give it a lot more laps than on the suggested synthetics (after following Euclid's excellent advice about prepping the surface). I'd suggest trying 15-20 no-pressure laps, then strop and shave. If it is still not up to snuff, try 15-20 more, etc.
The only thing the PHIG has to recommend it, again IMO, is that it is inexpensive. You will very likely end up buying some synthetics later on anyway, so why not take that leap now instead? Alternately, it might suit you better to send the razor out to a pro for honing this time and spend a few months saving up for that 12 or 16K.
rs,
Tack
Thanks for the reply Tack. I think the PHIG appealed to me as a first choice because I'm not sure that the practice of honing my own razors will stick. So I don't want to drop a bunch of cash when in the end I may just have a stone that's used for a paperweight while my razors are sent off to be professionally honed.
Thanks Tack - just what I needed to read, something very succinct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack
Am going to put my coticule away for awhile, as I've read enough about the stones to know they vary widely.
Just ordered a 12k Naniwa, and when I want to refresh ANY blade I have, I'm pretty confident I'll know what to expect with the 12k Naniwa, and, "5 or 6 light laps on a 12k Naniwa", is something eminently doable without fear of destroying or damaging a blade.
I assume it needs to be lapped, I requested Fendrihan to lap it for me, hopefully they will.
Thanks!
edited to add: they won't lap it for me...time to do some reading! :D
On a side note: another thing that appeals to me about natural stones is that they're the sort that would have been historically used. Part of the appeal of straight razor shaving for me is the idea of favoring skill over technology. That said I'm currently reliant on CROX paste which I'm sure didn't exist in the 19th century (or am I wrong? My knowledge of the history of material science is near non-existent).
In my opinion the Chinese waterstone is a good stone to finish. The best way, if you use with tomo nagura. That's true, that the Chinese is a bit slowly, but make a very good edge. Its own slurry stone I never use. I usually doing about 70-80 laps, that I make slurry with yellow coticule (I haven't tomo nagura), and doing 70-80 laps without slurry. It's perfect for me.
There is always a question within an answer isn't.there, sort of like a neverending quest :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrank
Just to start things off: I have an atoma 400g lapping plate, and I am happy with it, nothing except wet and dry to compare it to mind you.
Oh, I agree.. hope I didn't give the impression that I am down on naturals - I have a pile of them - used regularly - as well as too many synthetics. If I had it to do all over again.. heh, well I'd probably make most of the same mistakes again, however the synthetic way is the less expensive. Naturals, particularly jnats, soak up money like sponges.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSpeedRacer
Honing is part of the fun; it's very satisfying to be able to turn a letter opener edge into a fine, smooth shaving edge. That said, we could have a lifetime of great shaves by simply having each razor professionally honed once and maintaining it with a nice finisher thereafter. It all depends upon how far you wish to go into the rabbit hole.
I think Phrank is exactly right about knowing what to expect from the 12K Nani - they are consistent, give predictable results, and are easier to learn than a natural stone. That's why they are so often recommended.
Jrabi- sounds like you found a good C12K and, more importantly, have figured out how to use it to suit your face. That's what it's all about. Incidentally, I often use a coticule slurry on a jnat base stone if I need to do a bit more than finishing. It works for me as well.
rs,
Tack
Google says Chromium was discovered in 1797. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSpeedRacer
Light strokes on a flat bed strop shouldn't round your edge too much.
Ideally, to exactly maintain the edge you have it needs to be touched up on something similar to what was used in the first place but there can be some overlap.
I got my Chi-Com stone from Woodcraft, and I think they have better stones than other vendors selling a like stone. I would never, ever buy one from somewhere like eBay. I also use a slurry stone cut from another Chi-Com stone that produces a milky-white slurry. After honing with 4000 and 8000 grit stones, I do 100 very light (low pressure) laps, continually thinning the slurry until I'm using nothing more than plain water.
Something else I've tried is spreading maybe three drops of liquid CROX on the surface of the wet stone instead of a slurry. It seems to work with very hard blades.
Geaux, I might try the CROX paste instead of slurry idea. I have way more of it than I probably ever need. I bought a big jar without realizing that I only need a tiny bit to coat my balsa strop.
I'm still a Noob to the whole honing thing, so I'm not the best person to answer this question - that being said - I purchased one because I needed a finishing stone and was working on a (very) tight budget. I bought one through Amazon. It arrived nicely packaged. It required very little lapping to achieve a usable surface. It raises a nice slurry and it works wonders on my razors. It was an excellent investment. It does what I needed it to do. I use this after the Norton 4k/8k.
I plan to get a 16k the next few months just to sweeten the pot.
I got my woodcraft PHIG today and tried it with a CROX slurry. It worked quite well.