How long did it take you to hit success?

Hey guys,

First real post here...I was just wondering how long it has taken most of you until you could successfully hone your own razors - specifically, from the bevel-setting stage (not refreshing)? And without having a mentor.

I have been trying to have my first successful attempt with a razor for over a month now, basically walking away from it for 2-3 days at a time when I get frustrated, culminating in about 10 attempts or so. I've watched Lynn's videos religiously countless times, in addition to reading this and other forums. I have been going with just the Norton 4k/8k since there seems to be a consensus about learning how to use that effectively first, before adding the variability of 1k stones and finishing stones, and I have been using the circle method as described by Lynn.

Before I had been taping, but after reading more and thinking about it I decided against it and today tried the full process without tape after 3 sets in bevel setting mode, the whole edge felt as people describe it should be on the TPT, and was cutting hair. Then I followed up with the no-pressure set on the 4k before doing the final x strokes on the 8k...after which it felt almost dull again, but I decided to just strop and shave test it to see, and it passed over the hairs, just like every previous step. I am thinking at this point that I am doing fine on the bevel setting, but I must be doing something wrong in the sharpening/polishing stages.

So has anyone else had this problem, and if so how long did it take you to get through it? I feel that, although honing is certainly not an easy craft, after a month of trying and researching I should have been successful by now. Were I back in the US I would just find a mentor or just send it off to get honed, but since I'm currently in Japan that is not an economical option at this time. In any case, if anyone here has had as much difficulty as I have that would at least be enough encouragement to keep trying, though I get this feeling like I'm the only person be this bad at the craft.

So any comments about how long/tough your learning process was or any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks.


PS: the blade I am trying to hone is just a standard Dovo carbon steel full hollow ground.

Well I'm about 7 months into honing and I still have trouble on some blades.
However I will say that when I did meet up with an experienced honer he noticed I had an edge problem on my 12k stone.
So even if I was setting bevels right, I was almost assuredly going backwards when I hit that stone.
There are a lot of variables in honing, so from personal experience just double check the basics are there like lapped stones with nice edges. Run your fingernail down the edge and make sure you can't feel anything.

Been at it about a year and a half and am finally getting it sorted out. After about a year the edges just kept getting better. I am sur it would take less time if you could get some in person mentoring.

Bob

I should add,after seeing other posts, that when I say honing I mean from bevel rest up and includes blades that need corrections for frowns, smiles, warps and twist, chips and heel reshaping.

If you are just touching up a decent edge on a 12K Nani that is lapped and the blade has no faults then it is relatively easy to learn to do in a short time.

I have darn few blades without faults and they drove me crazy trying to figure them all out. Still learning too.

There are razors and then there are razors. The less problematic of the species took me practically no time at all - a few days of fiddling to manage blades that were essentially straight, square and not needing edges set. A few months more to set a new edge on a relatively straight blade. Six months along there're a few I still haven't figured out.

Advice at SRP, especially shaving off a 1,000, is excellent.

Pretty much with straight forward honing and easy edges it didn't take long at all. Probably my 2nd or 3rd attempt.

Don't confuse how long it takes to hone a specific razor with actually learning how to hone. I think most of the guys who have been at it for a time including our heavy hitters will tell you, you never stop learning how to hone. Every razor can present a new problem requiring a new solution.

As mentioned, each razor has its own challenges to honing.

I started honing over a year ago on an old Crown & Sword razor. I used a 1K stone and Norton 4K/8K stone. I wanted to learn to set the bevel first because that helped me get a good base down for proper sharpness. It took a lot of strokes, repeated watching of videos, and sharpness tests, but I got the process down within a month. Now, I get honing down (e.g., on 1K then 4K, 8K, & 12K stones) after about 2 attempts for a new razor (e.g., one that I have not honed before). However, I find that I still learn something new to honing or sharpness testing when I hone a new razor.

+1 on the never ending learning curve. I've been at it practically every day for 7 mos and I can get most razors as sharp and smooth as they need to be. I have a few that sit in my drawer for days when I feel like being frustrated. I learned to set bevels correctly first and then went for smoothness. I learned on nortons and went to shaptons after that. I must say that the shaptons are easier to hone with and give great results on most steels.

I would master setting bevels - do it all day if you need to. This is the most critical part of honing and it can't be stressed enough. If the bevel isn't perfect then your going to be frustrated down the line over and over again. I think you should pick up a 1k hone to learn how to set bevels and then go to the higher grits rather than the other way around.

A good magnifying loop is also very helpful. If you can learn what a good bevel looks like you can save yourself lots of time...

Keep at it - it's not as hard as it seems... Most of the time.

John

For me, I learned to maintain a properly honed razor fairly quickly. However I always ran into trouble doing them from square one myself, until I went against many recommendations and raised a burr during bevel setting. Before I kept thinking the bevel was set and would progress through the stones to find out later when I was ready to shave that it was not. Raising a burr one time allows me to KNOW the bevel is set and I am ready to move on. After that there is no need to raise a burr again in the future.

I would describe myself as slightly ahead of you on the learning curve, and your experience is familiar to me. I've gotten comfortable shaves off my own honing, and then maintained that for months or 2-3 years, but with frustrating setbacks along the way.

Suggestion 1 of 2: RoyalCake mentioned lapping. Something I used to hear here more often, but not lately, is to draw a grid on your stone with pencil. Then lap it until all the grid marks are gone. That way you know when you've lapped past the unevenness.

Suggestion 2 of 2: The Beginners 1k thread and JaNorton thread were a revelation to me regarding what I'm trying to accomplish at the lower grits. The comments from the other guys, above, about bevel-setting, reflect this also.

I often feel like the slow learner around here on honing. When it stops being fun, I let someone else produce some shave-ready edges for me, so that I can shave again without having to make some breakthrough on my learning curve with honing. Then I can relax and treat honing like just another fun thing to keep learning.

About a year,Than I sold most of my stones.I let the real pros hone my blades,at my age I do not need any stinking Challanges:)

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Originally Posted by badgersayswhat

Hey guys,

First real post here...I was just wondering how long it has taken most of you until you could successfully hone your own razors - specifically, from the bevel-setting stage (not refreshing)? And without having a mentor.

I have been trying to have my first successful attempt with a razor for over a month now, basically walking away from it for 2-3 days at a time when I get frustrated, culminating in about 10 attempts or so. I've watched Lynn's videos religiously countless times, in addition to reading this and other forums. I have been going with just the Norton 4k/8k since there seems to be a consensus about learning how to use that effectively first, before adding the variability of 1k stones and finishing stones, and I have been using the circle method as described by Lynn.

Before I had been taping, but after reading more and thinking about it I decided against it and today tried the full process without tape after 3 sets in bevel setting mode, the whole edge felt as people describe it should be on the TPT, and was cutting hair. Then I followed up with the no-pressure set on the 4k before doing the final x strokes on the 8k...after which it felt almost dull again, but I decided to just strop and shave test it to see, and it passed over the hairs, just like every previous step. I am thinking at this point that I am doing fine on the bevel setting, but I must be doing something wrong in the sharpening/polishing stages.

So has anyone else had this problem, and if so how long did it take you to get through it? I feel that, although honing is certainly not an easy craft, after a month of trying and researching I should have been successful by now. Were I back in the US I would just find a mentor or just send it off to get honed, but since I'm currently in Japan that is not an economical option at this time. In any case, if anyone here has had as much difficulty as I have that would at least be enough encouragement to keep trying, though I get this feeling like I'm the only person be this bad at the craft.

So any comments about how long/tough your learning process was or any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks.


PS: the blade I am trying to hone is just a standard Dovo carbon steel full hollow ground.

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I started straight razor shaving July 2013 took 90 days to get good shaving. Bought a set of Naniwa 1,5,8,12k stones and a DMT 325 for lapping and heavy duty blade work. Bought some cheap Gold Dollar model 66 razors and practiced after watching and watching Lynn's and Glenn's videos a million times. Did the mentoring thing with Larry at whipped dog where he sends you a razor has you hone it you send it back and he tells you what you did wrong. It's now January 2014 and I can do a good job honing. The GD razors really gave me some good experience as at $4 a piece I was not afraid of messing up. I also asked questions in honing forum.

Talking to Glenn and Lynn really helped more than reading and videos. I also practiced honing before I hit on something that gave good results. Even now, sometimes it's like trying to kill a fly with a sledge hammer.

6 months. A whole lot of hit and misses along the way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by badgersayswhat

Hey guys,

First real post here...I was just wondering how long it has taken most of you until you could successfully hone your own razors - specifically, from the bevel-setting stage (not refreshing)? And without having a mentor.

.....

In any case, if anyone here has had as much difficulty as I have that would at least be enough encouragement to keep trying, though I get this feeling like I'm the only person be this bad at the craft.

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Yes, yes, that would be me. :p

Without a mentor it took me about 20 years to be consistent but I could occasionally fluke an edge from the get go.

Can you shave well with a known sharp edge & can you maintain it a good period of time with a strop ?
If not, even a good job on the hones may see you dead in the water.

11 years and still learning! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Yes, yes, that would be me. :p

Without a mentor it took me about 20 years to be consistent but I could occasionally fluke an edge from the get go.

Can you shave well with a known sharp edge & can you maintain it a good period of time with a strop ?
If not, even a good job on the hones may see you dead in the water.

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Thanks for the questions - I forgot to mention that in my post. I practiced quite a lot with x-strokes on my 2" strop so I think that part is fine (though I have a 3" strop coming along with my next razor to make things easier), and I picked up the shave quite naturally, even on the left hand, by easing into it step by step for a few days. The razor in question went for about 2 months. Which probably means I did have some slight initial problems but I'm certainly glad I didn't dull the edge after a week of poor maintenance heh.

So it seems like my experience isn't abnormal, which makes me feel a lot better.

I am pretty confident that my problem is in the bevel setting, as it was for a lot of people. I'll try again this weekend and update if it works..otherwise, I have a new razor coming that should be shave-ready, and before using it I will probably get a magnifying eye loop and look at the edge, and also use TPT to see what it feels like as a comparison.

Also forgot to mention: I have a DMT 320 that I'm using to lap, but might try that pencil trick in case I haven't been lapping enough.

I'll definitely keep trying!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by badgersayswhat

Thanks for the questions - I forgot to mention that in my post. I practiced quite a lot with x-strokes on my 2" strop so I think that part is fine (though I have a 3" strop coming along with my next razor to make things easier), and I picked up the shave quite naturally, even on the left hand, by easing into it step by step for a few days. The razor in question went for about 2 months. Which probably means I did have some slight initial problems but I'm certainly glad I didn't dull the edge after a week of poor maintenance heh.

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Some will say it depends on your beard too but I know a guy who gets 6-8 months between honings & he has a tough beard. I would say the 2 months is average for new shavers & implies less than perfect stropping or maybe corrosion issues. In any case, time will tell & things should improve.

Besides lapping, I would also chamfer the edges of your stones.
I have been back at this (honing) for 3 months, most of the time I can go from dull to shavable in 2 hours (including removing chips, frowns).
But I have had a blade or 2 that gave me fits. Just finished cmon that took 2 days of about 4 hours total. Just when i think I have a system something comes along and smacks me down.
I would ask do you use a loupe? To me it is imvaluable at telling me I failed to get a bevel set. Unfortunately it wont tell me what to do to fix it.
Some things I think contribute to failure is too much pressure, raising a slurry and pushing the edge into that slurry, rather than using a spine leading stroke, and not using enough spine leading strokes.
These are my experiences, ymmv.

It took me over a hundred razors to learn that I didn't know what I didn't know..........

I didn't start honing for others until I had done over a thousand razors. I was kinda on a quest.........;)

As was said by others, I am still learning every time I sit down to hone razors which is pretty much every day. Remember that what doesn't work today, may be the foundation for something successful tomorrow.

Have fun.

Not trying to be funny or deep when I say this, but even after two + years I still haven't "mastered" it. I mean that's why I guess I call it my hobby lol.

I figure that's why there are pro's, gifted brothers, and then there is dudes like me lol. Good enough to get a decent edge when needed but not good enough to always get great edges :).

Seriously, to this day I still blow a hone. :( Oh sure I am getting better but, I don't know all my blades well enough and quite frankly, all my blades seem to like a little of this or a little of that more so than others. The one thing I have begun to do though is always hone my Dovo with whatever else it is I am honing. It's my go-to. I know it the best and pull it out as needed... which you know, is often! After all - Swedish steel is a bugger to learn to hone LOL!

Remembering that during the str8 razor era most men didn't shave themselves, and either had beards or went to a barber(shave and a haircut-2 bits) I think we're all to be commended for at least trying!!

I could get just an "OK" shave from the 8k after about 2 or 3 months (same razor honed probably 10 times- purchased to practice honing). After about 6-8 months, they were a little more comfortable. After a year and probably 40+ attempts on some cheapie restores, I could get comfortable shaves. I learned that some razors just take an edge easier then others, also when people say no pressure, they mean absolutely no pressure. After realizing this my shaves got comfortable. I'm about a year and a half in and get good shaves, but they are not anywhere near what some of the pros can do. I've still got a lot to learn and I'm always experimenting with some of my less valuable razors that I purchased with the intent on practicing honing.

Practice is what did it for me. The more razors I tried and the different obstacles they can throw at you I think have improved my honing. However, I still have a long way to go.