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Hi all, I'd like an opinion on wether these stones will give a great edge?
I plan to use king waterstones in 1k and 6k and finish with a purple Lyn melynlyn yellow lake slate with and without a slurry.
I have years of experience honing Japanese chisels but am completely new to straights!
I'm sure one of the more experienced members concerning honing will be along to tell you for sure, but if my memory serves me, the King stones should be adequate for the early stages... Also, I know the Lyn Melynlyn has been discussed here before with positive stats, but where it falls in the progression, I don't remember.
One thing, if you haven't already read this, is that honing a straight razor is not really comparable to honing anything else. With that said, the learning curve for you may be easier than someone who has never honed anything before.
I think the purple yellow lake stone from Bethesda is a slow cutting 12k? So should be decent as a final stone?
Am I right in saying the aim with a straight when honing is not to get as far as creating a burr?
I have used the 1k often I have used the 6k king only on a rare occasion.. This gives a good solid Bevel setter and a Hone on the High side of Sharpening
The Slate will work how it wants to, you are going to have to come off the 6k and blend the edge into the fine slate
I really don't see any issues with your set up, it might just take a slight bit more time then a ladder with more rungs in it (Tighter progression smaller steps) to blend the stages together...
Burrs are bad :)
So would setting a bevel with the 1k then doing a pyramid with 6k/slate and finishing with a few laps on the slate going from thick slurry to water be a good plan?
And obviously honing with little pressure with the edge trailing as opposed to the jap chisel method
Quote:
Originally Posted by reuben
No :)
Setting the bevel with the 1k = yes
After that you are going to have to mess with some methods to find the best for you, it would not be my first approach to pyramid between the 6k and the slate.. Not saying it won't work just saying that would not be my first plan of attack also slurry is a tool that takes some practice to learn but if you have used it in the past then heck ya go for it :)...
Lynn and I and a few others have vids up on youtube about honing mine can be found very easily by using google and the words "gssixgun Honing" there are several dozen
Lynn's and mine also can be found right here on SRP by going to the Vid forum
I suggest watching at least a few and especially some of the "One Stone Honing" ones from both of us there are tons of hints and ideas in there...
Honing a razor is normally done with the edge leading and using an slight heel forward motion with an X stroke.. this is much easier to watch then to describe...
After you have some success at the process, then you can experiment with other more esoteric experimentation.. The vids are mostly done with the idea of the easiest path to success...
Right so I watched some vids and went for it on my stainless kropp eBay special....the blade was slightly chipped and smiled so bread knifed it back to a straight edge then went to town on the 1k, I tried with tape and found the 1k ate through it so I removed the tape and reset the bevel;) I was popping hairs along the blade so I jumped straight to the 6k king. After about 25 laps on the 6k I noticed the edge get mirror like so I left the stone dry out and the slurry break down to polish and gently did 10 final laps. Finally I stropped on leather only and surprisingly got a decent shave! Can't wait to try the LM purple!
In theory you could get away with using those 3 stones but you're going to need to do a heck of a lot of lap with both the 6k and the Lyn Melynlyn. Most multi stone honing progressions use 4 or 5 stones.
How many laps would you recommend?
If you got a decent shave off the 6K, it sounds like you did a good job :) I suggest you try the Llyn Melynllyn with a diluting slurry and see if the shave improves. If it does, you're one happy guy, if it doesn't, you'll probably need more work on the slurried LM. If it still doesn't improve, it's back to the 6K.
Wow, that sounds like a lot of complicated honing to me. For my preference, I use a couple corse stones if the bevel needs setting. Otherwise, I have five Coticules and two blue Belgium stones. Usually when a razor needs to visit the hone I simply choose one of the yellows, whip up a little slurry and in a few minutes to sometimes half an hour it is popping hair straight off the stone. Once in a while I'll pull out one of the Belgium blues and work up an edge but that is because I want to play. If the yellow needs more abrasion, whip up a bit more slurry and less abrasion comes from dilution with a finish on plain water. Then it is off to a clean piece of linen and a clean piece of leather to make it ready for the shave.
It sounds like you are a craftsman or artisan of some sort. Using a Coticule shouldn't pose much of a problem for you to learn. I did and I'm a knuckle dragger. I like to keep things simple and fun. Otherwise, what's the point?
Regards
Chasmo
Yeah it was a bit over the top on the 6k but I haven't got the slate yet and using a broken slurry was the only way I could get to a finer grit. Yes Im a fine woodworker of sorts, joinery, cabinet making and luthiery are my professions so keeping a keen edge is something I have already practiced however I'm interested to see how stropping and grit rating effect how comfortable a shave is..it seems the goal is not just a sharp edge but a smooth one too
There are a lot of guys out there who like a pasted strop but, I'm simply not one of them. If you do paste one get something you can keep away from your daily clean strop. When I was experimenting with pastes I liked the TI paste better than the rest. I have a board with a piece of leather glued on it that I paste and strop my chisels and plane blades on. That's fine. But, as for my razors, they get clean ole cuticle mud, clean linen or cotton and clean leather according to which strop I grab. Learn your strop well. Get that mussel memory thing going and develop the finger twist to flop the razor over. That clean strop is what is going to make you a happy shaver. What's that they say nowadays, "it really is the bomb".
Good luck.
How long is a piece of string? For a razor to be both sharp, and smooth, you need to get rid of all the scratches off the bevel. The 6k stone will take a while before it gets rid of the 1k stone scratches and the Lyn Melynlyn will take a while before it gets rid of the 6k scratches. As I said, most honing progressions have 4 or 5 stones in them and it's not because people like buying more hones.Quote:
Originally Posted by reuben
Ok update on the 6k edge...shave 2 started out great, fairly comfortable first pass wtg so I decided to go for a cg pass. Wasn't too bad but it started to feel harsh and started tugging slightly...I thought it was my angle so I went for atg....dum dum dum! :cry: I could literally feel my edge crumbling and turning into what I can only describe as shaving with a Japanese pull saw! Moral of the story...6k is just far too toothy an edge to shave with more than once. Time to go back one the hones and wait for my LM and crox to arrive in the post!
On a side note, stay away from Haryali straights on eBay! I bought one just to practice honing with and it's the cheapest chromolybdenum that I have ever seen, like seriously even diy wood chisels have better steel!
Get yourself a Coticule, learn it well and you won't regret it. Couple that with learning your clean strop well and you'll have graduated to victor.
Chasmo
I'm thinking about it but tbh the price has put me off, is rather spend more time on the slate and crox
Coticules are pretty hard hones to learn, in my experience. I tried only two, but never got an edge close to the edges I get from my Shaptons. As you've got an LM in the mail, I'd say stick with that until you get great edges before you try another hone. As gssixgun has so adequately in his signature, learning one hone is more valuable than collecting many.Quote:
Originally Posted by reuben
Quote:
Originally Posted by reuben
Sounds to me like you did pretty good for a first try, work the tools you have in your hands, from the point you are at in the above post the LM should be more then capable of getting you a very Smooth edge.. You need to just mess with it to figure it out, Keep in mind that when finishing on naturals most of them will give a Scratched or often called "Hazy" finish this is to be expected, work the edge by feel and shave comfort not by sight...
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurens
I learned on Nortons and a Naniwa 12k before I invested in a set of Shaptons - never looking back. I have a cuticule to play with but I don't think it's possible to get the sharpness and consistency that you can get with the Shaptons. That said, there is something romantic about using a natural stone by itself from bevel set on through.
John
If I need to set the bevel I drop back to one of my more aggressive stones. Once set sometimes I'll use a Belgium blue as a mid range rock but usually not. A thick slurry on a Coticule diluting out to keenness on plain water is where I want to be. I have a few to choose from according to my fancy. They all have their own characteristics. This morning I shaved with a hundred twenty four plus year old Wade and Butcher that was finished on a Coticule and stropped on a Tony Miller Number 2. That edge was even and sharp enough to shave my two and a half day growth away without the slightest razor burn. I rinsed and splashed with Which Hazel of which I barely noticed beyond it being wet. The Dominica Bay Rum on my way out the door raised a little tingle, a twinge of warmth, in a pleasurable way. Coticules, they are not for everyone. But, I like them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ocelot27
Very Respectfully
Chasmo
I finally got my LM in the post (AJ is a top bloke and cut me up a custom size) and my first impressions are it does produce a very fine edge with water but is a tad hazy,not quite as uniform a scratch pattern as a jap waterstone so I wasn't expecting much...After about 40 passed on the LM I was picking up great feedback off the sound of the edge and the surface water so I did a quick test on the arm hair (does anybody else's arms look like a patchwork quilt?) And it just popped them right off. After 10 passed on some crox pasted mdf i took it to the strop and went for the test shave.
That bevel looked at tad cloudly so I expected pulling and razor burn but all I got was a close, comfortable shave even against the grain! I am now a fully converted straight shaver and can't wait till my next go!
P.s don't use mdf to strop on, I just noticed chippingat the heel where the edge of the mdf has swollen.
After you get more and more comfortable, another trick to the Slates is a Product called "Smith's Honing Solution" don't know if you guys have it local or not but it works rather well on the slates