Kamisori honing question....

I recently watched 2 videos about kamisori honing on youtube. I understand the ratio concept; one side getting more strokes than the other. I one video, the guy performed the higher number of strokes (10) on the "stamped" side and finished with 1 stroke on the "raised"/ non-stamped side. The next video I watched, another guy did the exact opposite technique! He performed 10 strokes on the "raised"/ non-stamped side, then completed by performing 1 "pulling" stroke, towards him, to the "stamped" side. I'm assuming that one is right, but which one? The edges on each side look so different; the non-stamped side has a really apparent bevel/edge. The stamped side edge seems to barely have an edge/bevel, if any. Any help to understand this would be appreciated, thanks!

Here let me make it totally confusing as there is at least one other vid out there that says hone them and flip them every stroke just like every other razor :)

There seem to be as many ways of honing a kamisori style razor as there are people who hone kamisori. I have tried both, that is more on the stamped and more on the unstamped. I got faster results by performing significantly more strokes on the stamped side, as you are honing much less steel surface area wise. The unstamped side is usually at least partly made of softer steel on most kamisori and will wear faster.

Someone told me to think of a kamisori as a plane, you really are looking to sharpen mainly one side (not quite so with the kamisori, but still the idea is similar) and do just enough on the other side to prevent a burr from forming. So I prefer to do significantly more strokes on the stamped side, last time I did a ratio of 10:1.

But there are just many different styles, I just found this to work the best and make the most sense. Less work (generally speaking), less wear.

Thanks for your replies, one last question....just how much of an edge or mirrored area should there be on the stamped side?

This is part of a progression I did on Koma on a that particular day. My method is more or less like this across the process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74QwItAQo_8

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Originally Posted by boaz65

Thanks for your replies, one last question....just how much of an edge or mirrored area should there be on the stamped side?

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On mine there is an extremely small bevel. You'd almost think there was none when glancing at it quickly. This is why I'd think the stamped side gets fewer strokes. I've watched the videos and was confused by the difference of opinion. I'd think only way to maintain this bevel size difference is to hone the the unstamped, curved side more. If you honed the stamped side more than the other, eventually you would widen the bevel on the stamped side and shorten it on the other. A very long time to do that, but I see that as being the effect.

Something I posted here awhile back.

"I'll start by saying, it's your Kamisori, hone it and shave with it as you wish.

That said, I believe that the ratios are adherent to the design of the Kamisori and they're intended to be honed this way based on their design.

Someone, somewhere, objected when I used the word "traditional" to describe using ratios and shaving with one side. While you can shave with it how ever you want, again, based on how it is designed, it is intended to be used Omote (unstamped side) on the face and honed using ratios. Honing 1:1 with equal pressure and affect will flatten the Omote in short order. This can be debated of course, but it is what it is.

1:1 and a closer number ratio in Ura/Omote honing, IMO, constitutes a shift to using both sides by altering the bevel angle on the Ura (Stamped side.) With the traditional ratios, shaving passes with the Ura side on the face are usually very harsh because of the bevel angle yielded by these traditional ratios.

IMO, there is more to Iwasaki's apprentices video than meets the eye. While it looks like he's doing 1:1 he is fact not. As Lynn stated, there is a slight variation on his strokes, in addition to a lot more touch and lighter pressure on the Ura.

When I hone Kamisori for others I now ask how they intend to use it and adjust accordingly.

As far as honing, I use circles, for me they provide the best edge coverage and provide the ideal technique for Omote symmetry longevity.

Keeping this in mind, my progression is not the conventional 10:1. With a Kamisori that has no issues, Omote down, I do 10 circles down the hone and without lifting the Kamisori off the hone get back to my starting point in one spine leading stroke. I'll do this four times, I then flip the Kamisori and do 10 spine leading strokes on the Ura (stamped side facing the hone.) I do this progression as I dilute through nagura."

I dare say I was using a kamisori before anyone on this site. It was before this site existed and in fact I sold Tosuke's. Back in those days these were unknown and no one knew anything about them. I had located a video of Tosuke honing one of his razors. The salient points were; he was using a 12K hone, he did washboard style honing, he used real pressure as he honed and he used a 10:1 ratio with most strokes on the stamped side. Over the years I've experimented with differing ratios but in general I've followed what I saw in that video and it seems to work for me.