Simple Question: Can a Norton 4K/8K produce a blade capable of passing the HHT?

I have a very simple (almost yes or no) question. That is the following: can a Norton 4K/8K get a razor to a point where it can pass the HHT? I'm only looking for an objective answer. I have a Dovo Best. I have gotten it to a "good shaving" point before, but I won't be satisfied until it passes the hanging hair test. What I want is for a couple of people to positively affirm that indeed they have accomplished such a feat. I simply want to know if the tools at my disposal are capable of doing what I want irrespective of my current abilities as they can become better, but my tools will basically stay the same.
There's no sense in my constantly honing if I'm chasing something impossible.

Welcome to SRP. Depends, my norton 4/8 can with my hair. I was taught that if the razor was not giving a fine shave at the 8k level there was no point in going past that to a higher grit finisher. So getting there with the 8k is part of the trip. Whether you can get HHT with it depends on the hair and the honer. :gl:

Sorry, but you are chasing the wrong thing. The HHT is simply one of many tests, all of which are used for the same purpose--to assess the potential of the honed razor to provide a properly effective and comfortable shave. The Norton 4/8 can accomplish THAT task and that is all that matters.

First test your HHT,, take a fresh DE or SE and see if your hair passes with that...

Learn the test first, the Norton 8k is capable, but you don't know if your hair is :shrug:

I know my shavette with a feather can easily pass the test

The short answer is yes it can. Early on in the piece, around when I first joined SRP, the Norton 4/8 was "the" stone, and a lot of us happily shaved off it, HHT or no.

The longer answer is what everyone else has said about your hair type and so on.

To get the most out of your Norton, check out the JaNorton thread from a while back. There's lots of good info in there (and also around the forum).

James.

Not with my hair :shrug:
But a fresh DE blade won't do it either.
After a proper stropping it can from 8k up, and the quality of the HHT goes up with a 12k, paste etc. as well.
It is a good tool but only if you are working with known variables.

I used to use my wife's hair until she started putting highlights in it, the processing of the lighter colors changed the game.

I have the norton combos and SWAMBO's hair is just right to do the HHT. Shaving off my 8K edge does me at the moment and I do have a couple honed by senior members to compare against. At the end of the day HHT, TPT etc is an indication, if you shave with the 8K edge and it feels OK then you are hitting the hones fine.

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Originally Posted by JohnGalt131

I know my shavette with a feather can easily pass the test

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Then you should with proper technique get an HHT off of your SR...

You really want to be careful here though, chasing edges for a goal such as the HHT or a Mirror bevel doesn't always lead to a smooth shave :(
A Close Comfortable Shave should be the goal, not some stupid arbitrary parlor trick that gives zero indication of how the razor shaves...

Like Jimbo pointed out the JaNorton thread is your friend or in today speak BFF as it will give you tons of tricks to get the most out of the Norton 4/8 check out the Stroptober thread also,,,, remember stropping is a huge part of this game too...

Enjoy the journey

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

some stupid arbitrary parlor trick that gives zero indication of how the razor shaves...

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This is the best definition of the HHT I have ever encountered!

I shaved off an 8K for years. The HHT test is useless in my opinion. My hair will not pass the HHT on any razor I have handled and that includes some done by well know honers. I will not even pass on a new DE or SE blade. Maybe a guy could make a living selling his hair which could become the gold standard for the HHT test and will allow direct comparisons among all shavers :)

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

First test your HHT,, take a fresh DE or SE and see if your hair passes with that...

Learn the test first, the Norton 8k is capable, but you don't know if your hair is :shrug:

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So what does it mean if my razor will pass with dog hair, but not human hair?

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Originally Posted by jgjgjg

So what does it mean if my razor will pass with dog hair, but not human hair?

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I think it means your shave will be a bit "woof"

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Originally Posted by jgjgjg

So what does it mean if my razor will pass with dog hair, but not human hair?

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You know this is actually an interesting question

Animal and Human Hair Evidence | Forensic Science


What all that means to us I have no idea, I guess you have to reverse engineer the DHHT to mean something :shrug:

Yes, with 2k to spare.

I ask because my dog has short, thick hair. My honed edges will generally cut them. My daughters all have very very soft, very very fine and floppy hair.

I haven't been able to hone or strop and edge yet that will consistently cut my daughter's hairs. I don't have any hairs long enough to keep my finger tips clear of the action.

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Originally Posted by CrownCork

I will not even pass on a new DE or SE blade.

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Wow! That is some amazing hair. I would love to have a sample of that hair. I have heard mystical rumors about hair that not even a feather blade can cut but have never seen this. Can you tree top your arm hair with a new razor blade?

This is a quote from SRP's WIKI. "The HHT is one of several sharpness tests frequently used by those who hone straight razors. In order to gain the benefits of using the HHT, one must understand what the HHT can and cannot do."

It can cut hair
It cannot cut your hair. Lol. :rofl2:

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Originally Posted by JohnGalt131

I have a very simple (almost yes or no) question. That is the following: can a Norton 4K/8K get a razor to a point where it can pass the HHT?

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Not such a simple question. 3 possible answers. :)

1. If Heisenberg was uncertain how would I know. :p
2. No the 4k/8k will just sit there until you push the razor on it
3. Yes you can HHT @ 8k, maybe even at 1k.

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Originally Posted by jgjgjg

So what does it mean if my razor will pass with dog hair, but not human hair?

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That would be for you to find out.

The sharpness tests all work the same way in principle:

1: Hone blade;
2: Test blade;
3: Shave with blade;
3.1: Assess edge in light of 3.
3.2: Compare results of 2 with 3.
4: Repeat the above 5 steps until the shave in 3 is acceptable.

At the end of that process, repeated over many razors and many honing sessions, you should have developed a very good map of how your chosen test relates to an edge that gives you a good shave.

In addition, if you are lucky you will also during the process develop a good idea of what kind of test result will relate to bad edges of various kinds.

Consistency of the process is important of course. Anything you change in any of the steps is basically a new situation that will need to be recalibrated using the process above.

But that process should work regardless of the test (thumb pad, HHT, etc). The only thing that is required is that the chosen test will produce a result. For example, a hair that will not cut when an edge produces the kind of shave you want is of course useless as a test.

James.

As already stated - depends on the hair and the honer.

My hair will rarely pass the HHT on a professionally honed blade - nor with that blade tree top my thin wispy arm hairs. I still find the HHT useful but I mostly use SWMBO's hair at the very end of honing and after stropping. Since I always use pretty much the same progression on the same hones (Shaptons) I know the final edge will be pretty much the same. I find the HHT more entertaining than anything - just knowing that I've succeeded in creating a very sharp edge is all that it tells me - I like to make the HHT as high a bar as possible - holding the root end of the hair and gently probing the edge from 2 inches out to see if it silently cuts. If it does, I giggle and shave with the razor knowing that it's sharp and if the shave doesn't go well, I know there is something else that I'm missing. As time goes on and you get better at honing the shaves get better and better and the HHT becomes less and less a test and more of a novelty.

-john

As simply stated by Utopian, “You are chasing the wrong thing”. A test is just a test. It may or may not have meaning for you. The goal is not to cut hand held or arm hair, but to shave… your face.

Many a race car performs superbly on the Dyno, but fails miserably on the track. Why?

The Dyno only gives you a result of one factor, as may do a hair test and that one section of the edge that did or did not cut hair.

It also says nothing of the main factor… the driver.

Can one hone an edge with a 4/8K Norton and achieve a very shaveable edge? Yes, absolutely… very well.

Cut your hair? Maybe…

so t recap, yes it can... maybe you can't (just yet) but be as consistent as possible with everything you do ( tape/no tape, circles/japanese/back honing, you name it) and eventually you'll get there,provided your hair is suitable and your technique is adequate, the most important thing is the sensation of the shave itself.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Many a race car performs superbly on the Dyno, but fails miserably on the track. Why?

The Dyno only gives you a result of one factor, as may do a hair test and that one section of the edge that did or did not cut hair.

It also says nothing of the main factor… the driver.

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Good analogy!

I'm a big fan of coticules - the yellow stone sets bevels well and the dark side refines the edge nicely. I have a double sided coticule and it's now the only hone use. (Unless there is serious corrective work that needs doing)

With practice, a 4&8k hone should give a good edge.

I, like many others don't have any scalp hairs long enough to HHT, so we AHT mostly and almost exclusively after 1k.

When I acquired my coticule (from retired barber-who was not a honer) i didn't know how to use it. I had been shaving off 8k, tried the Coti, and preferred the 8k edge.

Then i learned to use the Coticule. Oh better. ;)

And I regularly test shave off the 8k, just to be sure an edge is ready for finer work.

I have thought of getting some hair from the salon, from when some gal gets a few inches knocked off. Should i get brunette or blonde or RED? :p Seems better than plucking them from my lab and jrt.


But then I've learned to hone and shave quite satisfactorily w/o any HH's, why complicate the program? :thinking: