When is a good time to switch to naturals?

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03-12-2014, 06:30 AM
sharkbite111

When is a good time to switch to naturals?

Immediately after bevel setting on 1k? 1k then some pre-polishing then jnat? Just looking to see what you guys think is a good place to switch. I have a razor that needs bevel set on up and I'm not sure when to switch to nagura progression.

Thanks,

Chris
03-12-2014, 07:21 AM
Kees

Whenever you feel like it. There is no rule. Naturals aren't necessarily better than synthetics. Like synthetics naturals come in all grit equivalents, especially the Japanese hones.
03-12-2014, 07:38 AM
TucoRamirez

Now is the time :)
Get a hard Jnat and DMT 600 grit card and hone away. Chef knives to go and Fendrihan sell Asagi Jnat which will suit your purpose. Once you figure out the stone then you can get the naguras.
03-12-2014, 08:31 AM
sharkbite111

I've got the stones. just looking to see where other people switch from synthetic to natural in their own honing routines.

Chris
03-12-2014, 10:20 AM
Kees

I thought you were asking for advice. I switch to naturals after the 5K Shapton. But that is just me.
03-12-2014, 10:50 AM
Maladroit

Hi Chris,

I'm a 3 year experienced honer and I've just done my first satisfactory "all natural" progression. I was never satisfied with the results from any natural in isolation, be it coticule, Chinese 12k, lower rank Jnat or yellow lake. However, I have recently taken a Bengall 6/8 bellied full hollow from bevel set on the King 1000 (admittedly not a natural) through to seriously shave ready via a coti, a PHIG and a translucent Arkanasas. Each were used slurried from a DMT and then with water alone - apart from the Arkansas which is always used either with oil or, in my case, water and detergent to get the right viscosity.

In other words, straight after bevel set is a great point to go the naturals. As always YMMV.

Mike
03-12-2014, 11:01 AM
bill3152

I go to naturals after bevel set. I use a softer jnat to prefinish then a finisher. I use naguras and tomos, i dont use diamond plate slurry although i have.
03-12-2014, 11:34 AM
mainaman

Quote:

Originally Posted by TucoRamirez

Chef knives to go sell Asagi Jnat which will suit your purpose.

not true, most of their stock is not suitable for razor
03-12-2014, 11:36 AM
mainaman

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkbite111

I've got the stones. just looking to see where other people switch from synthetic to natural in their own honing routines.

Chris

After 10k for me, but if you have the correct combo you can jump after 1k as well.
03-12-2014, 12:18 PM
cosperryan

Yeah I only use a diamond 1k for bevel setting, everything else is natural. I will use a coticule with slurry and dilute on down to water. I could stop there but usually I will take it to the arkansas that I have. Just gives me a much much smoother shave and a tad sharper than the coti as well. I don't have any J-nats and probably never will. I am totally content with those three stones. I have others but rarely use them for anything other than paperweights. I just find that combo works the best that I have experienced.
03-15-2014, 04:23 AM
pcb01

Synthetic to 12-20k. Then my Y-G Thuri. Took me 5 years to figure this out.
03-15-2014, 08:10 PM
Kees

Y/G Thuri after a 20K?
03-15-2014, 10:13 PM
Birnando

I play around with all kinds of progressions.
To me that is half the fun in honing:)

I can do an entire honing on naturals, set the bevel on a synth first or go to anywhere between 5K and 20K before doing a final finish on a natural finisher.
Or not use a natural at all.
There is really no right or wrong answer here, play around with what you got and see what results you achieve:)
03-17-2014, 05:22 AM
sharkbite111

Thanks for all the input! Here's what I tried (still in progress though)...Chosera 1k for the bevel, Naniwa 2k aotoshi (green brick) to lessen the 1k scratches, Blue Aoto with light DMT-made slurry to convert the scratch pattern from synth to natural, then ozuku with asano nagura progression (botan through koma), then finish on tomonagura. I got stuck on the aoto for a while on 1 razor. Not sure why it went from easily shaving arm hair to easily sliding across arm hair without cutting, but I got the edge back :) The other razor had a much quicker transition on the aoto. I am really enjoying the couple of Jnats I have and trying to learn a little more each time I use them. I REALLY enjoy the nagura progression! Its so relaxing and enjoyable. I am slowly transitioning all my razors to a Jnat edge (as soon as they need a touch up). Thanks again!!

Chris
03-17-2014, 07:57 AM
Bruno

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kees

Whenever you feel like it. There is no rule. Naturals aren't necessarily better than synthetics. Like synthetics naturals come in all grit equivalents, especially the Japanese hones.

+1.

And don't forget the hefty price tags those natural stones can carry.
Yes they are very nice stones, and will be able to deliver good results.
It's more about preference and whether you are willing to pay $$$ for a stone (Japanese naturals) to do a job you can also do with a $$ synthetic.
Coticules are more affordable, but in any significant size they've also gotten more expensive in recent years.
03-17-2014, 08:52 PM
kiwichris

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkbite111

Not sure why it went from easily shaving arm hair to easily sliding across arm hair without cutting, but I got the edge back :)

Chris

Hey Chris

Can I ask what you did to get the edge back - I've been trying to set a bevel on my Shoubudani and I can't get it to shave arm hair.

Thanks
03-18-2014, 05:43 AM
RoyalCake

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkbite111

Thanks for all the input! Here's what I tried (still in progress though)...Chosera 1k for the bevel, Naniwa 2k aotoshi (green brick) to lessen the 1k scratches, Blue Aoto with light DMT-made slurry to convert the scratch pattern from synth to natural, then ozuku with asano nagura progression (botan through koma), then finish on tomonagura. I got stuck on the aoto for a while on 1 razor. Not sure why it went from easily shaving arm hair to easily sliding across arm hair without cutting, but I got the edge back :) The other razor had a much quicker transition on the aoto. I am really enjoying the couple of Jnats I have and trying to learn a little more each time I use them. I REALLY enjoy the nagura progression! Its so relaxing and enjoyable. I am slowly transitioning all my razors to a Jnat edge (as soon as they need a touch up). Thanks again!!

Chris

Yeah my current favorite pastime is going through the naguras as I sit on the couch with a little nakayama in hand. Not an expensive one either, but man it's great. I'm going to have to buy more razors soon to keep this up :)

By the way I've been going to it after 8k, thought I probably could earlier.
03-18-2014, 08:37 AM
sharkbite111

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwichris

Hey Chris

Can I ask what you did to get the edge back - I've been trying to set a bevel on my Shoubudani and I can't get it to shave arm hair.

Thanks

I lost the edge on the aoto. I kept at it for a while then just said 'to hell with it' and went to the ozuku and botan nagura. A few 'mid pressure' circles and a few x strokes with medium to med-heavy slurry and it was cutting hair again. Rinse, re-slurry (but lighter), and repeat with less pressure. Very nice edge at that point. Thats actually where it is now waiting for me to get home and move on to tenjyou nagura.

I'm pretty sure I dulled it with the slurry on the aoto. It still felt sharp and dug in a little on the TPT but it certainly wasn't shaving anything :)

Chris
03-18-2014, 08:42 AM
sharkbite111

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalCake

Yeah my current favorite pastime is going through the naguras as I sit on the couch with a little nakayama in hand. Not an expensive one either, but man it's great. I'm going to have to buy more razors soon to keep this up :)

By the way I've been going to it after 8k, thought I probably could earlier.

Sounds familiar! I generally don't hand hold it until the very end. I set up a little station on the coffee table and use the norton box/holder and some shelf liner to keep it from sliding. Add in a few paper towels and a spray bottle and I'm all set for some honing and watching Cosmos :)

Chris
04-02-2014, 03:11 PM
bill3152

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwichris

Hey Chris

Can I ask what you did to get the edge back - I've been trying to set a bevel on my Shoubudani and I can't get it to shave arm hair.

Thanks

You would need a heavy diamond plate slurry or botan nagura to set a bevel on a hard stone like a shubodani. Synthetics work great for this, but you can do it.
04-02-2014, 08:47 PM
kiwichris

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill3152

You would need a heavy diamond plate slurry or botan nagura to set a bevel on a hard stone like a shubodani. Synthetics work great for this, but you can do it.

Thanks Bill.

I got some lapping film just to set the bevel and I think I've managed to get it. I honed a new-to-me Filarmonica a couple of nights ago (setting the bevel on the 15mu film and doing the rest on the Shoubudani with increasingly diluted tomo slurry using Lynn's method) and while it didn't feel the smoothest (thanks for spoiling me Oz), it sure gives a close shave.

I think I'm making a little bit of progress now.