Hanging hair test a step too far?

I have very fine hair. The controversial HHT has just brought a question into my head.
My hair has trouble with this test, even with a DE blade.
With a DE blade i can only cut the hair after it slides over the blade for a few millimetres and then catches, which cuts the hair off.
With a straight i can do the same but only a few millimetres from where i hold the hair.
Some posts have informed me that overhoning produces an enhanced pop on the HHT.
I am wondering, if I hone all my razors so that they can perform a HHT, could I in fact be overhoning them, as my hair is too fine to be HHTed with a properly honed razor?
Any ideas?
I have not fully got the TPT down yet, so i might have to completely revise my honing approach if this is true. i was just wondering if it could be the reason that my razors seem like they could shave better
Thanks
Nick

I have never experienced an overhoned edge on my face, but apparently it feels like shaving with a cactus.

You are not overhoning if your razor passes the HHT and feels smooth on your face.

In the end, the shave test is the only test that matters. If it feels good, it IS good.

I agree with Bruno. In the end you have to put the razor on your face - it's the reason for honing in the first place, after all.

But, some recent debates have also lead me to think that with experience and by paying careful attention to how the HHT passes, and it's relationship to the subsequent shave, you can develop a useful and consistent test.

One logical approach to your dilemma is exactly what you have done already, IMO. See how your hair passess on an edge you know is shave-sharp and not overhoned (like the DE), and try to replicate this on your straight. Perhaps even better is to compare like with like - say using a honemeister sharpened straight as reference.

Whether your fine hair will pass the HHT on an overhoned or wire edge more easily than on a correctly honed edge is something I don't have enough experience to comment on. But, if it turns out to be true, you're going to have to be really careful when or if you use the HHT. On the other hand, as Bruno suggests, you'll find out what's going on pretty quickly when you go to shave.

James.

The main reason I thought of this question was because the shaves were coming in under par. I was trying to question every possibility.
I think I have had a couple of them very sharp a couple of times, and they shaved ok. Now it seems that no matter what i do, the shave comes in scraping, pulling and generally not removing the stubble.
Nick

That could be overhoned. Backhone on 8k a few strokes and test. If it feels better than it was overhoned. Thats Alan's simple overhoning test. Follow that with passes on 8k until shaving again like a hot knife through butter (which will occur after stropping) so experiment a little.

I've just got my razor back from Lynn and I cannot make it pass any of the tests however I have BBS cheeks and chin?

Beginning to think the HHT is pointless? If my Lynn honed razor cannot do it then why bother when the shave is fine?

Well, there's a lot of variables that make up the tests. I've always maintained the biggest variability is between people, not within people. So if you can find one that works for you use it.

I think you need some sort of test or tests when you hone and strop - I get a lot of mileage from the "mm or two above the arm hair" test. Mainly because I'm too lazy to crawl around on the bathroom floor looking for a bit of my wife's hair. But I wouldn't say that the HHT is pointless in general.

Have you tried the HHT by holding the hair by the tip (not the root) so that the barbs catch on the edge when you pull it toward you slighty?

James.

This is the only way HHT works in any way for me. Even with a Feather DE blade it won't cut my hair if I hold it by the root. The hair just bends and slides over until it is free!
I guess I might have to abandon the use of this test completely as it doesn't seem to give any good sign as to how sharp my razor is. The hair only pops off in one way, under very specific circumstance.
The arm hair doesn't work for me either as it also is too fine, leg hairs are no problem, though i have not been able to distinguish any difference in the cutting ability of a sharp vs shave ready razor(if it cuts the hair it does so in only one fashion)
I am tempted to try to force myself to overhone an old razor, however then i am stuck with the situation of recognising when it becomes overhoned.
Maybe i should just get my razors hone properly when I get the chance so i can feel the perfect edge?
Until then I think i will try learning to hone from scratch using the TPT as a sharpness reference, i still have an Ebay special waiting for treatment.
Nick

I can never get the HHT to work for me. The hair on my arms is also very fine, and I don't have alot of hair left on my head. My legs don't have alot of hair ether, wearing boots in the Army. My wife isn't going to let me keep pulling her hair out ether, So shave test works for me.
Phil

Unfortunately when people start out and they have no real idea what they're doing they look for some benchmark that they can hang onto that will magically tell them when they reach that ideal point. The problem is these tests are only there to help the person starting out like the pyramid in honing and people can get so fixated on the tests that they lose sight of the fact that its the shave that really matters. You really need to develop a feel for the razor and the way it behaves and if you depend on these tests too much it just becomes a crutch and you never develop that feel.

I wouldn't worry a dang about the tests. Just hone until it feels right then test shave then continue to hone if necessary. Its tough at first buts its like trying to learn to ride a bike with training wheels on it. You just never will. So take the training wheels off and just hone and experiment. Start with a junk razor just to get that feel then gravitate to an OK razor before go to a really good one.

I know alot of guys will disagree with me but that's the way I see it gents.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

people can get so fixated on the tests that they lose sight of the fact that its the shave that really matters.

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I can vouch for this statement. I noticed it happening to me. I was trying every test under the sun and completely lost sight of the shave both as a true test and as the reason for the razor in the first place. As a result, I got very frustrated and confused.

Let the shave be your guide. Like Lynn says in his video: your face will tell you what needs to be done.

The tests are handy, but you have to know what you're looking for and when. It's not unusual for a blade to pop hairs like mad off the hard arkansas or 4k norton, then pop decreasingly well as I go up the grits and then deliver a great shave. Once I leave the 4k I really don't worry about it much, I just trust to my stones and a light touch to get the razor sharper, and the feel of the razor on the hone to tell me when it's done.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by floridaboy

I can never get the HHT to work for me. The hair on my arms is also very fine, and I don't have alot of hair left on my head. My legs don't have alot of hair ether, wearing boots in the Army. My wife isn't going to let me keep pulling her hair out ether, So shave test works for me.
Phil

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I hate to break it to you Phil, but it is time to start a family :-) Kids are an endless supply of fine hair that will definitely challenge a well honed edge.

Bill

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nickyspaghetti

I am wondering, if I hone all my razors so that they can perform a HHT, could I in fact be overhoning them, as my hair is too fine to be HHTed with a properly honed razor?

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Yes, it certainly is possible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nickyspaghetti

Any ideas?
I have not fully got the TPT down yet ...

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Work on developing that one and ...
Pay more attention to the feel and sound of the razor on the hone as you are honing. You can actually hear the fins forming on the 8k and even feel the edge changing if you are attentive enough.

X

Ok, I'm getting frustrated now!
I spent ages the other day honing all my razors without using the HHT, just the TPT and got good results. Shaves were better, i could get the feeling of the blade much better on my thumb than any other way i found so far.
My frustration comes from the fact, that my best shave comes from a crappy shavette copy i just used. It provided me with a great shave, probably the closest i ever had using feather blades.
This has irritated me as it seems all my honing practice has actually got me not too far at all. To even compare the difference between the shaves i get is out of the question.
I guess i must be doing something seriously wrong on the honing side of it.
I have religiously been honing for two months on 9 different razors, and still my shaves fall a little short of great. I love shaving don't get me wrong, but i just feel a little disappointed that the closeness just isn't what i would like.
I guess it will be time for me to send out my razors to a honemeister as it has beaten me for the time being, i am moving abroad in 3 weeks and won't be able to take norton with me so i need them to be sharp before i leave.
Anybody in europe that offer honing services? how much would they want per razor?
Thanks for the advice!
Nick

Try to focus just in one blade and get the better you can from it......

Do you use strop?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nickyspaghetti

Anybody in europe that offer honing services? how much would they want per razor?
Thanks for the advice!
Nick

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PM sent.

(insert some random text here because otherwise the message is too short :cool: )

It's probably a good idea to get a honemeister to do a razor or two for you.

But I'd say that if after 2 months of honing you can get a razor to shave off your whiskers without pulling or leaving razor burn or cutting you or giving you a rash, that's pretty good.

Your frustration is understandable, but you need to give yourself a break - I reckon it sounds like you're doing pretty well.

James.

Nicky,
Another SRPer and I are working on a standardized HHT test that will not use hair. We're doing it for the very reason you point. Hair is anything but standard! I agree with Bruno that the HHT is just one data point. The best test for the edge is it's ability to give you a good shave.

I guess its true that i must have made progress at some point. They were all dull as butterknifes when i got them.
I shouldn't have made the error of trying to do this independently, a well honed razor to use as an aiming point would have been the best idead from the start.
Oh well. I shall definately get this beaten one day!
A new standardised HHT? Sounds interesting, i look forward to hearing what you have to say
Nick