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Has anyone been able to have a razor pass the HHT-4 (pops right off) or HHT-5 (silent slice) when the razor comes off directly from a Norton 8k or a Naniwa 8k or a Shapton 8k without going further to a finishing stone or stropping with paste or spray?
I have not personally been able to do this without a finishing stone at least..
I've been able to, as many others have, get great close comfortable shaves off the Norton 8k.
As i wear my hair 1/4 inch long (and don't have a she in house at this point in time), i never got into the lopping of hanging hairs. And more relevantly because all the old honers said "that's a silly test" that only means anything within your own set of parameters (calibrations), first being the size of the hair, and 23 other variables.
If you need something beyond the 8k to get a nice shave, then your bevel is not good. Start over. This is why many folks will test shave off the 8k before going any further or stropping with any abrasives.
8k, leather, shave. pass? fine, then continue. fail? go back to 1 or 2k and fix your bevel.
Kill it first, and bring it back (better, sharper, stronger than before) that way you don't get fooled by the substandard one you have.
Every time you speak of HHT here it screams "novice" to those who have been on the board a while.
Not trying to be snarky, just FYI. Great shaves to ya. :chapeau
Probably just semantics but there's no point in killing an edge. Just kill any burrs or wire you may have created.Quote:
Originally Posted by WadePatton
Granted my experience is limited, but i have never seen anyone recommend test shaving at 8k before moving on.. Is this common here ? Is that what the pro-honers are typically doing?Quote:
Originally Posted by WadePatton
What are the less novice approaches to easily try to determining edge quality other than shaving?
Thanks!
I have had hht off a dmt 600. I think it was a 4 based on the description.
It helped me, so therefore i recommend it. It's not a hard-kill either. across the thumbnail a few times will do it. Just so that it won't nip arm hairs. Then make it POP arm hairs.Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
Yeah, we've spoken of it here quite a bit. Try some searches. Hit this one: Advanced Search, Titles only, "test". That'll keep you busy for a week.Quote:
Originally Posted by globaldev
Here's a "vintage" thread on the subject: http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...-pass-hht.html
Short version for me is that I watched every single one of Glen's videos (and plenty of others), many of them more than once. I test just about like Glen does. (Then I accumulated 30 something razors of my own from rough to ready and honed every other razor anybody will let me.) I use AHT/TNT for bevel setting. Then AHT, possibly TPT when polishing. TNT is too destructive to use after 1k. AHT will tell you lots, but you have to determine what it's telling you.
Then strop, and shave test.
I'm still working on TPT calibration, some swear by that. My hide may be too thick. :shrug:
This is Glen: https://www.youtube.com/user/gssixgu...w=grid&sort=da
Also back to OP, here are 526 posts in one thread about what you can do with a 4/8k Norto.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...on-2012-a.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by globaldev
Just to clarify here, the 8k recommendation is not an every time test, but it is the recommendation that many give when the idea of spending money of finishers come up..
"If you can't get a consistent DFS off the 8k level then more money on a High Grit finisher probably won't help"
Shave testing is still the important test but as you progress each test will work itself out but every one takes time and practice to calibrate..
The problem with all the tests is that people are attempting to use them as an absolute and that isn't they way they will ever work.. Each honer needs to calibrate each test to themselves..
Just like this thread illustrates one persons HHT 4 might be another's HHT 24 these tests are not universal, it just doesn't work that way :( or as so many like to say "It ain't Rocket Science" which is correct it ain't ...
Yeah, we're on the same page. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by WadePatton
that's very different than what i thought i heard.. which came across initially to me as most .. i understand now... good recommendation if one is thinking that polishing is gonna fix what's not sharpened well.Quote:
Originally Posted by WadePatton
i understand the background/implementation of AHT, TNT, TPT, HHT, shave etc.. i've read the rationale as to why it's considered a parlour trick by some, i've also seen way differing attitudes as to what constitutes an edge people want to shave with..Quote:
Yeah, we've spoken of it here quite a bit. Try some searches. Hit this one: Advanced Search, Titles only, "test". That'll keep you busy for a week.
i just don't understand why after "several" honing/shaves and HHTs, that would still be considered a novice move after observing a pretty high correlation between the way the hair one uses personally HHT rates and the resultant shave... isn't that correlation pretty advanced if it is consistent in production.. i think of it as a validation and fun to do.. no reason to take the fun of honing&shaving is there? doesn't really take that long either..
interpreting AHT vs HHT.. isn't that almost pretty much the same exact thing in the theory ! yeah? no? maybe?Quote:
Short version for me is that I watched every single one of Glen's videos (and plenty of others), many of them more than once. I test just about like Glen does. (Then I accumulated 30 something razors of my own from rough to ready and honed every other razor anybody will let me.) I use AHT/TNT for bevel setting. Then AHT, possibly TPT when polishing. TNT is too destructive to use after 1k. AHT will tell you lots, but you have to determine what it's telling you.
i get that, sharp vs polish again...Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
i think i have only once gotten close to an HHT 23 :banghead: damn elusive HHT 24!! back to the bevel for me??? or should i just get that gokumyo?!? .:rofl2:Quote:
Shave testing is still the important test but as you progress each test will work itself out but every one takes time and practice to calibrate..
The problem with all the tests is that people are attempting to use them as an absolute and that isn't they way they will ever work.. Each honer needs to calibrate each test to themselves..
Just like this thread illustrates one persons HHT 4 might be another's HHT 24 these tests are not universal, it just doesn't work that way :( or as so many like to say "It ain't Rocket Science" which is correct it ain't ...
good discussion guys, thanks, IMHO it's only through trial&error that folks learn the subtleties of honing a straight razor and the testing considerations and what they mean.
When I started on the forum in 2008 the Norton 8k was considered a "finishing hone" and that was usually followed by a pasted strop/paddle. I got perfectly fine edges that way.
The one thing i might say is different about AHT is that it's much easier to keep your hair grain/twist, and root orientation sorted.
I've seen Lynn do his sorta opposite of how I do mine. But then sometimes i use "his" method too. Sure you can find a correlation, i gots mine. But all it really tells us is that the razor is ready to be shave tested.
happy testing.
I've often read about the hanging hair test as well as other test that are so often turned into alienating abbreviations that appear to a newbie's eyes to be a wave of straight shaving dyslexia.
I get a mirror bevel and a great shave from my honed razors but I've never been able to pass the hanging hair test and have so far been unable convince my better half to donate some of her hair-which is finer than my own thick mop-to test it on hers. In fairness, the next time I'm fishing her super fine hair out of the plughole i could dry it and test on that but my life hasn't reached such desperate and tragic depths.
I wonder whether it's necessary to pass the hanging hair test? Of course it's possible that what I consider to be a great shave is a very blasphemy to the shave gods and passing the hanging hair test would allow me to reach shaving nirvana... One never knows.
OP, i realize i helped move the thread to a side topic, but I don't even try the HHT until i've stropped, which is never during a honing session.Quote:
Originally Posted by spacex
but are your shaves off the 8000 poor? are they good? are they fantastic?
I get the implication you able to have the hair catch/pop at least.. or does it not even get there?
are you honing a hollow razor or wedge when attempting this test?
i can see that being a consideration.. thanks for the follow-up..Quote:
Originally Posted by WadePatton
a mirror bevel doesn't always mean the edge is polished.. it does mean that the bevel is highly polished (whether it's set or not)..Quote:
Originally Posted by Christel
I hope there isn't going to be a test on all this later :<0)
I shaved off the 8k for a year before I moved up any more. During that time I learned to stop testing except for thumb pad and once in awhile an arm hair. That left me confident enough in my skills and thumb to go all the way to finishing on a ZG now. So if I do have to back up because something went wrong,,, it ain't far. Of all the tests in the beginning I prefer the looking glass at bevel set.
Oh and when your talking about hanging hair (just to add to the confusion) don't forget to mention if your going from root to tip or the other way around. :hmmm:
Before I had a pasted paddle and finishing stones I shaved many times off of an 8k edge, I always stropped 40 laps on linen and 100 laps on the leather after honing, after the 1st shave off the 8k I would strop as normal (20 linen, 60 leather). Now with pasted paddles and 10k+ finishing hones I strop as normal after honing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by globaldev
I have come to consider the 8k stone to be my best friend. Strop and shave. Either you are there or you are not there.
Working with the Norton set 220/1K/4K/8K and shaving off the 8K (red and green paste as a finisher) for the past 10 months. The 8K edge is a bit harsh straight off the stone and finished with the paste produces an alright shave. Recently I have been using the Welsh slate from AJ and they seem to finish nicely (no paste) but do not pass the HHT with the same success that my 8K edge used to. When learning a smart person who is well respected commented that their edge has to be pushed when doing the tree top hair test, this comment now makes a lot more sense with the slates. I believe that the edge of the 8K is a little toothy and the jaggedness makes the HHT more easy as it catches the hair, my edge has now mellowed out on the finer grits. Where I had a lot of irritation doing an against the grain pass on 8K, the Welsh hones now give a smooth finish. HHT was good to start with but my honing has progressed a bit since then on the Welsh slates. Get good shaves at 8K level and see what the edge feels like straigh off the hone, this way you will have a way to judge finishing on the lower grits later. The HHT is a good starting indicator but will most probably fade in popularity the further down your honing journey you are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by globaldev
Good call. I was honing on coticule and hadn't thought to get rid of the slurry and switch to pure water for the final polishing - hanging hair test consistently achieved now. 😊
Not a massive difference in the shave itself but it is a little smoother which is never a bad thing.
Many thanks!