Only Half Sharp

I am new to honing razors. I am currently using the Norton 1K/4K/8K progression followed by CrOx on balsa wood then strop on kangaroo hide. The edge is very sharp but not consistent from heel to toe. My stroke is mostly straight down the stone. I see a smooth line of water pushed in front of the edge along the whole lenght and I am careful to maintain good edge/spine contact but the heel of the blade is noticably sharper than the toe. A transision seems to occur about mid lenght. The two razors I am using now are a Red Imp 132 and a Union Cutlery wedge but I have a similar issue with hollow ground and heavier wedge razors. Will more of an X crossing stroke produce a more consistent edge or is there something else I should change?

For sure a rolling x-stroke will help, also check the edges for frowns as they can cause honing problems

Have you done the permanent marker test to make sure your covering the entire lenght of the blade?
From that test you can see how some part of the razor is not making contact with the edge and adjust your stroke accordingly.
Strokes for honing a razor - Straight Razor Place Library

Pictures always help because of the different things that make a razor harder to hone. Hone wear, pressure, hones being flat (lapped) before honing. Give us more info and I'm sure someone here can get you on the right track :)

The transition sounds like a problem that lapping will help. As far as "x" strokes, they will help if you have a lot of hone wear. It helps ensure contact on the full length of the blade.

Definitely do the marker test, it's the best way see what's going on.

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Originally Posted by Martin103

Have you done the permanent marker test to make sure your covering the entire lenght of the blade?
From that test you can see how some part of the razor is not making contact with the edge and adjust your stroke accordingly.
Strokes for honing a razor - Straight Razor Place Library

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Just raise the elbow of the arm you are honing with.

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Originally Posted by ace

Just raise the elbow of the arm you are honing with.

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You put your left foot in,
You put your left foot out;
You put your left foot in,
And you shake it all about.:rofl2:

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Originally Posted by Raol

You put your left foot in,
You put your left foot out;
You put your left foot in,

And you shake it all about.:rofl2:

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You do the Honing Hokey Pokey
and ya turn yourself around
That's what it's all about
Hey...

I think you might try changing your honing technique, especially with older well worn blades. It is necessary to guide your contact with the hone to favor the part of the edge that needs it most.
At least to some degree, I always find that I will need to spend more time in some areas than others. Even from one side of the blade to the other.
Before I decide to move on to a finer grit hone I will take an edge to the microscope and examine it.
For example, I might decide to concentrate more on the midsection on the "push" side of the blade and maybe on the tip of the "pull" side to get uniformity of sharpness and smoothness.
Very few older razors have edges that are totally straight.
I think it is a mistake to beleive that a totally straight edge is necessary. Too many nice old smiling blades have been wronged by insisting that they have a straight edge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raol

You put your left foot in,
You put your left foot out;
You put your left foot in,
And you shake it all about.:rofl2:

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:roflmao You are a card !!

Thanks for all of the answers and questions. The razors are older but very lightly used. Narrow bevels, no frowns, little spine wear. I did the marker test and the bevel goes to the edge. I found the Norton lapping stone left deep scratched in the stone and did not leave it flat. I just lapped all stones on a progression of W/D sand paper on a granite inspection slab so they are as flat as I can make them. I don't know what I would take a picture of. Under 35X there is no difference in the edge but I can feel it with my thumb and the ability to cut hair is clear. Even so, I believe my technique is more of a limiting factor than the blades. I will try adjusting my stroke to get more action on the toe end. Thanks for the help.

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Originally Posted by john3126

I did the marker test and the bevel goes to the edge.

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The marker test is not to see if the bevel goes to the edge. After both side of the bevel have been marked with ink from the marker, you do 4 to 5 strokes on your stone, then you can see if there any marker left anywhere.
From there you can re apply some ink adjust your stroke until all the ink is removed from the bevel.

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Originally Posted by Martin103

The marker test is not to see if the bevel goes to the edge. After both side of the bevel have been marked with ink from the marker, you do 4 to 5 strokes on your stone, then you can see if there any marker left anywhere.
From there you can re apply some ink adjust your stroke until all the ink is removed from the bevel.

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I think we are saying the same thing. Even removal of the marker tells me the entire edge is contacting the stone.

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Originally Posted by ace

Just raise the elbow of the arm you are honing with.

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All jokes aside, this is good advice. Thanks, ace!

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Originally Posted by JeffR

All jokes aside, this is good advice. Thanks, ace!

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And the reason is,, you naturally put more pressure on the heel when your elbow drops down, without you noticing it.

Unless you hone standing up, then lifting the elbow puts pressure on the toe of the razor & the trapezius of the honer. :)

Great information gents.
I'm as new to honing as I can be, so answers to clear questions really help...I'm reading and doing more these days than I am posting; listening more than talking.
That means I'm trying to learn more than I want to 'brag'.
Strange times these.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Unless you hone standing up, then lifting the elbow puts pressure on the toe of the razor & the trapezius of the honer. :)

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A very helpful mentor showed me that what I thought was a natural honing position, with my right elbow pointed at the ground, resulted in weight inadvertently being placed on the heel. When I was shown how to lift the elbow to parallel with the hone and cradle the scales in the last three fingers of my right hand, I found that the blade naturally would lie flat on the hone without the need for any further manipulation. It seemed unnatural at first and was uncomfortable for the first few strokes, but the results showed the value of it, and it became a habit, a good one.

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Originally Posted by ace

A very helpful mentor showed me that what I thought was a natural honing position, with my right elbow pointed at the ground, resulted in weight inadvertently being placed on the heel. When I was shown how to lift the elbow to parallel with the hone and cradle the scales in the last three fingers of my right hand, I found that the blade naturally would lie flat on the hone without the need for any further manipulation. It seemed unnatural at first and was uncomfortable for the first few strokes, but the results showed the value of it, and it became a habit, a good one.

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Like I said, standing to hone introduces a whole new set of ergonomics. Anything other than having the elbow hanging comfortably will result in RSI if a lot of hours are involved.
More important is having the stone at the right height. When standing that is about waist high which results in the wrist being near parallel to the stone.
When sitting you can't get that relationship with your elbow down unless the stone is on your lap or your table very low so I see how lifting the elbow will compensate.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

You do the Honing Hokey Pokey
and ya turn the rock around
That's what it's all about
Hey...

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fixed it for ya.

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The thing is, you can't leave the first rock until she's sticky sharp end to end*. Nothing wrong with working the dull end until it matches and blending them. *including the middle. marker marker marker.

Mixing and matching the strokes to fit the blade and spine is just a part of it. Spending too much time with any single stroke is a great way to induce wear patterns (not good). rock and roll.

and hokey

pokey

I do not try to go too slow. I see the pros do real slow finishing strokes but really it is harder to keep the blade steady for me. I am not saying you cannot do it I just cannot keep the blade flat. On the other hand, going too fast can cause issues.

I do hone sitting so raising my elbow will probably help. I also see I can get more value from the marker test than I have been. Hopefully I can try some of this out over the weekend. Thanks for all the great advise.

One thing I've taken to lately is to alternate between heel first and toe first on the hone when using x-strokes. It's not as tough as it may sound after a little practice. Seems like the heel first stroke many times gets the heel much more worked than the toe. So I alternate using toe first for 30 strokes or so then heel first for the next 30 laps, and on and on. I haven't seen any bad effects and it does seem to even out how the edge grinds itself on the stone. Like most, I much prefer a tiny, even bevel and that seems to have been the final twist I needed to make that happen.

Though trying it on a humpback with a smile can get a little like Olympic gymnastics...

Just wanted to close this out. I tried most everything suggested here and even went to honing while standing. I got what felt like a uniformly sharp edge but after stropping still had a noticible difference from heel to toe. I am sure my honing technique has improved over the last couple of weeks but final issue was with the strop. I have a kangaroo strop and since it is so thin I put a fair amount of tension on it to keep it flat, I thought. I was actually preventing the razor from making consistent full contact with the leather. Loosened up on the strop and maintained little more than blade weight for pressure and I am getting and excellent edge along the length of the blade. I am now working through my small collection of razors to get them all to this standard. Thanks again for all the help