Frameback Trouble

Hey Everyone,

I am having some trouble honing a Wade & Butcher Frameback. I have tried resetting the bevel a couple times on 1200 grit and working back up to 12k. For some reason, I can not get a specific part of the blade sharp. The rest of the blade is popping hairs silently, but this certain section of the blade isn't even pulling hairs. It just glides over them as would the spine. I have tried different techniques: applied pressure, rolling strokes, straight strokes, etc. I am at a loss. I am about ready to send this out to a pro, but I REALLY want to do this one on my own. Please lend me any advice on what I can do. I very much appreciate it. Thanks!

I have marked the blade to indicate where the problem is.

Mark the bevel with the marker and make a few passes on the stone.
Look at both sides, realize a rolling-X stroke is a mild variance of the pressure along the length of the blade.
You will have to adjust your stroke manipulating to hit all of the bevel evenly (note this does not mean the bevel will be even it may be wider/narrower in some areas).
If it is a real problem you can also use light finger pressure at the trouble spot.
From what you are explaining the bevel is not set in that area and moving up the progression will do nothing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pfries

Mark the bevel with the marker and make a few passes on the stone.
Look at both sides, realize a rolling-X stroke is a mild variance of the pressure along the length of the blade.
You will have to adjust your stroke manipulating to hit all of the bevel evenly (note this does not mean the bevel will be even it may be wider/narrower in some areas).
If it is a real problem you can also use light finger pressure at the trouble spot.
From what you are explaining the bevel is not set in that area and moving up the progression will do nothing.

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Thanks for your reply. I did mark the bevel with marker... twice (I forgot to mention that). Each time the marker was completely taken away with the first stroke on the 1200. I also tried just putting pressure on that area. The second time honing this razor, after noticing that the marker was removed, I used the same stroke for 20 strokes. I suppose I may just need to spend more time on the 1200. I just don't want to take away too much metal in the process.

This may turn out being a job for someone with more experience. I just thought I would gather the thought of others because I would really enjoy accomplishing this challenge. At the same time, this is an older razor that doesn't come along every day, and I would like to maintain some of it's geometry. Thanks again! I am going to take a couple days away from this project and regroup. Perhaps I will have an epiphany in the mean time.

I have had similar problems with a smiling W&B with what i think is an uneven spine which was giving me grief,
had several different goes at it with single & double layers of tape I think it must have had several layers of tape to be honed before I got it as the bevel is a lot bigger than the final honing to get i right with a single layer of tape

the marker check was my way past it to get the rotating X stroke right and yours looks like it has a fair bit of hone wear on the spine also that may need the extra layer or 2 of tape to correct.
just my limited experience shared & hope you work it out though

Are you able to inspect the edge under a loupe?
Is the entire length of the edge passing the test for bevel being set (which ever methods you are using)?
It sounds like you are not getting the bevel set along the entire edge.

As Substance stated tape may help and will limit the spine wear.
There is only one way to learn honing and that is by doing it, if there is someone close by see if you can meet up.

You may also want to set it aside for a while if it frustrates you,
some of the geometrically challenged razors can cause grief for a fairly experienced honer and just starting out it can be daunting.

Thanks for the suggestions! I have not tried taping the spine yet. I am going to take the rest of the night off to regain my poise, but I will try two layers of tape tomorrow. Do you think this is the correct approach, or should I start with one layer and see where it gets me?

I do have a loupe that use during the process, however since I am fairly new to this, I admittedly do not know exactly what to look for. Basically when I use the loupe, I am just looking to see if the next stone in the progression is removing the scratches from the previous hone. Is this the correct way of using magnification, or are there other aspects that I should be aware of?

Really the only test that I use while setting a bevel is shaving my arm hair. Then when I am finished with my progression, I use the HHT. What are some tests that are good for knowing that the bevel is set across the entire edge?

Again, thanks for the help! I have seven razors, and have managed to put a great edge on all of them accept this one. I suppose this how one gets better. I can only imagine the conundrums that some honemeisters have encountered over the years.

Try and calibrate the TNT (Thumb nail test) and TPT (thumb pad test).
You may want to use one from your collection that you are able to hone easily for this.
Look at the edge under a bright light look for a reflection off the edge there should be none. I do this gently rotating it side to side.
Glen has a post some where of how he inspects the edge I will see if I can find it http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...-you-leap.html and http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...sess-edge.html
Here are two Spend your time studying what each part looks like along your journey, you have to learn what it should look like, take notes.
I would start with one layer of tape and go up but that is me. I have one blade I had to use 3 layers on when I started out now I use none on it.

Corrective honing is a bit different than honing and many times is not worth the time IMO,
many times Proper honing will bring a blade around in a few sessions.

So, my plans to stay away from this razor for a day failed. I thought about taping the spine over dinner, and once I was nourished and my spirits replenished, I decided to give it another shot. I applied one layer of tape to the spine, and right away I could tell a difference on the 1200. Better feedback, and better water displacement. I also applied the suggested TNT off of the 1200, and even applied the TPT throughout the rest of the progression (this is the first time I have used the TPT, but I definitely recognized that sticky feel). Anyways, long-ish story short, that layer of tape made a huge difference, and now the entire edge of this frame back shaves every bit as well as my other razors.

Thank you guys so much for the suggestions. Before tonight I honestly thought that adding tape to the spine was only to protect the spine from hone wear. I had no idea that it could correct such a frustrating circumstance. I am ecstatic that I was able to complete this challenge on my own (of course with the help from you guys)!

Thanks again!

Glad you got it!
Getting the bevel truly set is the biggest part of honing.
You may want to try again without tape further down the road.
Keep a short log on what when and how, it will help.

Now it is time to enjoy the fruits of your labor :D

Great to hear you got it worked out
And it is shaving well
Job well done now to the next tester and so the learning curve continues