New to straight razor honing

Hello all, firstly I must apologise if any of the questions I ask have been covered before (I’m sure they have).

I have finally taken the plunge and awaiting delivery of my first straight razor. I have gone for a 5/8 Boker King Cutter, this one Boker King Cutter in addition i have purchased a leather strop with a canvas back (one of my questions) and a 12k Naniwa Super stone.

A big part of the enjoyment of a straight razor for me will be the honing of the razor itself. I have been sharpening knives now for many years and while I don’t think you ever stop learning I believe I’m pretty competent when it comes to getting kitchen knives hair popping sharp but honing a razor is completely new to me and when all said and done I don’t take a kitchen knife to me face :D

I already had a fair selection of stones ranging from 300 Grit all the way through to 8k (mostly naniwa super stones which after trying everything from cheap pound shop type stones to expensive natural stones I find them to offer the best value for money and give consistently good results). I’ve added the 12k super stone to that set just for the razor. This brings me to my first question, is 12k for a razor the best point to stop with the hones or is there a benefit to going any higher ?

My second question is regarding the canvas side of the strop itself. I read that it is “recommended” but I don’t seem to be able to find much information as to why and when you use this side ?

On the same lines of honing, are the pastes worth going for or will a honing to 12k followed by a good stop be sufficient to provide a good shave ? Is there a noticeable difference to a blade finished with say 0.5 micron paste over a blade finished without ?

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and again a apologize if this has already been covered.

Exited 1^st time straight user J

Hope I can help a bit with this. The 12k is easily enough for shaving. It is generally recommend that you start honing only to the 8k level as that is considered the start point of shave ready. If you can't get a razor smoothly shaving at 8k you need to work on your technique till you get that level sorted. You will see it said round here you can't polish a turd. You need to set the bevel properly and work up to 8k without issues or there is no point in going further. The .5 crox is often used to smooth out the edge after honing or just add that final touch of sharpness. Lynn himself in vids uses the naniwas up to 12k then the crox pasted strop. Try watching the vids by Gssixgun and Lynn Abrams on YouTube. Stropping is recommended at 25 linen and 50 leather. The linen cleans and warms the blade and is also believed to be very mildly abrasive. Hope this helps.

I touch up with 8-10 on the Naniwa 12K, 8-10 on balsa crox, 8-10 Irox, 50 on leather, and as Al Pacino would say, nothin' but nothin' but right...

I can't remember who said it on this site but I nearly fell out of my chair laughing when he said "use lava soap for lather... that way you can hone and shave at the same time!". I must be slap happy this morning because I still think that is hilarious! :) I personally hone to 16k as necessary and then use a leather strop before every shave with great results. I haven't seen any use for the pastes in my routine yet (I am still pretty new to this myself), but maybe someday I'll surprise myself and give them a try. I know others who swear by them. That is part of the fun of straight razor shaving though - there is always something new to try. The point I want to make is that you can get a close baby but smooth and comfortable shave just using hones and not utilizing any of the sharpening pastes. The key is how sharp the razor is. How it gets there is a matter of personal preference. By the way, welcome to the site!!

Mike,
I don't doubt your abilities as a knife sharpener, however razors are a complete different animal...ask me how I know. My experiences almost mirror yours. My recommendation to you right now is to have a pro-honed blade for reference & to learn to shave off of. Fine a mentor is my first recommendation for anyone jumping into this "sport". They don't have to be a badged mentor, just someone who has been at this a while. Put your location in your member profile information...if you are within driving distance, some see me!

Thank you all for the advice it is appreciated :o

So the canvas side is used for a Pre strop to prepare the blade for the actual strop. I think I'll have to try and find some more info on that just to understand what is going on there from a scientific point of view.

As far as honing itself goes I would imagine that one of the biggest pitfalls will be making sure you don't put to aqute angle on the bevel and make it prone to rolling the edge ? In terms of the bevel angle itself, from what I can gather that is really sorted for you in that you use The blades spine as a guide, but out of interest what is that angle ?

The razor I have ordered is supposed to have been honed already to be shave ready, if it has then I guess that will be my benchmark for future honing. How would I tell though if it has been done properly as I don't have anything to compare it with. Is it bjust a case of giving it a go and see how it feels ?

Again thanks all for the advice.

Who did you order it from? We know most vendors who offer truly shave ready razors.
Yes, you lay the razor flat on it's side and the spine is the guide for honing. I honestly forget the angle, but the proper angle is also dependent on the steel used and its heat treatment and the such.

Welcome, Mike. You're definitely in the right place

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eddy79

Lynn himself in vids uses the naniwas up to 12k then the crox pasted strop. Try watching the vids by Gssixgun and Lynn Abrams on YouTube. Stropping is recommended at 25 linen and 50 leather. The linen cleans and warms the blade and is also believed to be very mildly abrasive. Hope this helps.

---

I also recommend watching the honing vids., particularly, Lynn Abrams video on honing with Naniwa stones. In that video, he also touches on the use of crox.

My first stone was a Naniwa 12K SS and, as noted by many, find using the stone as a refresher/finisher *very* forgiving for this newbie. While I wouldn't mind having a higher grit stone, say a Gokumyo #20000, the 12K is definitely serving its purpose and I am very happy with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shooter74743

Who did you order it from? We know most vendors who offer truly shave ready razors.
.

---

I ordered it from here Introduction to razors

The razor and all the other stuff (12k hone, strop and stop bleeding stick) arrived today and I must say what a beautiful tool it is.

One thing that did imidiatley strike me was how thin and delicate the edge actually is. I was expecting it to be more "knife like" but it is so far removed from a knife edge that the only real similarities are that they are both made of metal !

To me it appears "shave ready" and it certainly made a bald patch on my arm but without any prior experience I can't say for sure if it is.

I'm going to have my first shave tomorrow and see how it goes. To tell you the truth I'm really looking forward to it :)

I am pretty sure that they should deliver a shave ready razor. Again watch the vids as honing a razor is different from a knife. The average angle from memory ia about 16 or 17 degrees. Do some reading in the honing forum and most of the process should be pretty clear and as a bonus you can catch HAD while you're there. Good luck with your shaves

Well it looks like i might have to have a go at refreshing the edge a bit sooner than i thought due to the following that happend last night:

The Mrs: Can i have a look, ive never seen a cut throat razor before.

Me: Yes sure.

hands over the razor.

The Mrs: Ohh its nice isnt it......is it sharp ?

At this point it all went a bit slow motion, before i could open my mouth and say anything the not so bright (but much prettier than me) Mrs brings said razor to her thumb and draws it accross like she is cutting a tomato.

Well you can have a good guess what happened.

Once we stemed the bleeding she decided that it was indeed sharp and i inspected the blade. It doesnt appear to have sustained any damage but im guessing it wont have done the edge much good.

On the plus side it gave me an excuse to watch some of Lynn's honing video's on youtube. My that chap makes it look very easy. Interesting veiwing.

Thanx again all for the advice and info :)

That finger, as long as the blade wasn't dropped & you wiped the blood from the blade, didn't hurt the edge a bit. Razors are on a whole new level of sharp that you haven't experienced before...a dull razor is sharper than most have encountered in a knife.

Do you have a strop?

I hope the Mrs's heals up ok, we all make silly mistakes. I had a macho friend do about the same thing...talk about putting a dent in his armor. His sentence started out along the lines of : these things are really that... (thumbs the blade)...shit!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shooter74743

Do you have a strop?

---

Yes i bought one with the canvas back allong with the razor :)

So just strop as suggested and all should be good ?

Yes, you should be able to strop and shave. The skin that your blade cut is much softer than the whiskers on your face actually. I have read somewhere that the whiskers on the normal man are equivalent to a pure strand copper of the same diameter...this actually made since to me. The blades are fragile in a way, but tough in others. Remember, improper stropping will ruin the edge quicker than cutting a finger.

Well I've just sat down after my first ever shave with a straight razor and I'm hooked, I really enjoyed the ritual laying out all the gear lathering up, stroping the razor (20 strokes on the canvas and 40 on the leather) and then finally the shave itself.

Against the advice I did my whole face and just took my time, the trickiest part for me was deffinatley going round the chin to my kneck. I avoided any knics and cuts which surprised me. As far as closeness goes I would say that on the easy parts it was as close if not closer than my mach 3 but the chin and top lip need some work.

Over all what an enjoyable experience..........now where do you buy them beard growing pills so I can have another go :)

Strop your razor after the shave too. My routine is at least 40x on leather after the shave and 60x before the shave not counting 10-20x on linen...

Our beards actally are smarter than us men. They take enough time to grow so that our face can heal up. Give it 30 shaves & you will be amazed at how it all comes together. I'm glad you had a great experience.

After my first shave yesterday I thought all was good however today my face seems a bit sore.

It was fine after the shave in that I didn't notice any more "stinging" than normal but today my right hand side of my face (I am right handed) feels a bit tender, I would say it feels a bit like a mild sunburn.

Have I been a bit rough with the razor or is it just a case of my skin needing time to adjust to a straight razor ?

After the shave I did use an aftershave baslm and a moisturiser.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions / advice

Many of us had what could be described as a severe sunburn after our first few shaves. I think the skin does need some time to adjust to the closer shave a straight razor gives. But it could be from other things too... Blade angle has to do with it (the blade spine too far from the skin) as well as too much pressure. I also found a dull blade causes that burning. My burning went away after I got a set of stones and started honing blades myself. (Aloe vera was the best cure to get rid of the burning I found). It could also be from over shaving one area. It's hard to resist re shaving an easy area just for fun! But I think multiple passes can irritate the skin to the burn level at first until your skin adjusts.

My advice us: give yourself a day or two to heal. Make sure the razor is truly shave ready sharp. Try to keep the spine closer to your skin. Resist multiple passes unless they are necessary.

I hope this helps! Eventually it will be a very comfortable and close shave for you! I promise!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by countrydraftsman

My advice us: give yourself a day or two to heal. Make sure the razor is truly shave ready sharp. Try to keep the spine closer to your skin. Resist multiple passes unless they are necessary.

---

Good Advice, give your face about two days to heal and you will be ready for round two.

I had another go today and made a couple of adjustments as suggested.

1: I limited myself to three paSees Max on any area.
2: I tried to use as light a pressure as I could manage. I think this in particular is my biggest problem in terms of feeling like I have sunburn. After only ever shaving with a mach3 or similar its quite an adjustment to make. My natural thinking is that more pressure equals a better shave where in fact the opposite is true.

One area that I'm really struggerling to do is my upper lip (ended up with two small cuts today) I just don't seem to be able to find the angle to do it, also the hair on my upper lip is significantly tougher than any other place. Has anyone got any tips with shaving this area in particular.

Once again thank you all for the advice already given it has been very helpful :)

I shave under my nose outwards. Pull my nose to the side, stretch my lip down and out then do a stroke from near the base of my nose out across one side and ending just past the edge of my mouth. Always keep it sliding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mike1011

So the canvas side is used for a Pre strop to prepare the blade for the actual strop. I think I'll have to try and find some more info on that just to understand what is going on there from a scientific point of view.

---

This seems to be quite misunderstood, so here's the science. The canvas is abrasive. Not as abrasive as a hone or a pasted strop but enough to remove the microoxidation as it forms. And oxidation is what kills the sharp edge of a razor.
Leather is not very good at that, I mean it's better than not stropping, that's why razors stropped on leather can remain sharp for more than the 2-3 shaves that a cartridge or DE (blades which are not stropped) last. But if you want to prolong the time between touch-ups you want to use canvas. Linen is a bit more abrasive than cotton, and putting chalk or graphite on makes it a little more abrasive, but still orders of magnitude less than say diamond or chromium oxide.
Also the canvas part of the old strop tended to be treated with something, nowadays if you get illinois strop is not the same treatment, they have a plasticky feel now, but functionally ends up working similarly. Also as you use the strop the oxidation builds up on the canvas and it turns gray even black in few years. I think this makes it a little bit more abrasive (it doesn't matter that iron oxide is softer than steel abrasion still works), but haven't done the experiment to prove/disprove it yet.

The modern polymer fabric that you can find on strops these days seems to work just as well as cotton/linen. Feels very different especially when brand new, though.

You don't have to strop after the shave, but doing so can ensure that there is no residual moisture on the edge, so the steel oxidizes at a slower rate (it still does as long as it's in contact with air, but the moisture is a catalyst which speeds the process by many orders of magnitude). You can do it on the strop, or on a towel, the goal is to remove the moisture, how you do it doesn't matter much.

My shave yesterday didn't go so well and I ended up with a small cut on my top lip, nothing major and that hemo stick stopped the bleeding. It came about because I was forcing the blade, it just didn't feel like it was cutting like the first couple of shaves despite a good stropping (which I think was actually the problem).

So last night I decided to have a go on the 12k stone to try and "refresh" the blade. Before I started I watched Lynn's you tube videos on using the naniwa stones. I figured it it all goes horribly wrong I can always send it off to get re done and honing was one of the big reasons I wanted to get into straight razor shaving.

I'm glad to say that it went really well and after the 40 circles etc on the 12k stone I followed up with 100 canvas strops and a good 200 hundred on the leather side. My shave tonight was the most comfortable yet !

I Think what I had done wrong was my stropping, a combination of not having the strop tight enough and also too much pressure. I suspect that somewhere along the line I have rounded or folded the edge.

Thanks to this site I have managed I think to fix my mistakes so thank you all. For such a "manly" thing this straight razor shaving really is quite a delicate art :)

Mike, I was really glad to hear that things are going well for you now! I can see where improper stropping could cause the issues you told us of earlier. You did the exact right thing in refreshing that blade with your 12k stone IMO. Lynn's videos have been amazing! I hope to meet him one day, and thank him in person! Thank you for the follow up post on your progress! I hope your wife's finger continues to heal!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by countrydraftsman

hope your wife's finger continues to heal!

---

Its healing up no problem thank you :) despite been pretty deep it was a nice clean cut and knitted together very well, I suppose if your going to cut yourself a razor blade is a good thing to do it with as the cuts are soO clean he he

If I do leave the razor out she eyes it with suspicion like its alive and might jump up and bite her at any moment. On the plus side I won't have to worry about her borrowing it for leg shaving like my old Mach 3 which used to get suspiciously blunt very quickly :shrug: