any difference in honing smiling edge?

Hello everyone,

Recently, I acquired a George Wostelholm & Son Original & True Sheffield razor. I've been using another razor, "Bonafide", that I honed pretty well using Lynn's video on honing with the Naniwa SS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=. So I thought that I would use the same method and give this razor a shot. Unfortunately, when it was time for the shave test, I found that the Sheffield razor was more irritating than the old razor, it felt like it was tugging on the hairs more than the old razor. I still managed to shave with it, but it was definitely less comfortable. When looking at the edges more closely, I noticed that the Bonafide has a straighter edge whereas the edge on the Sheffield is more concave to a smiling edge. Here is the picture of the Bonafide:
Attachment 163950
And two pictures of the Sheffields:
Attachment 163951Attachment 163952

Since, I've also noticed that on the Sheffield razor the sides of the edge are a little duller than the center of it, ie I can pop off arm hairs pretty easily if I use the middle of the edge, but if I try to use the toe or the heel of the edge sometimes it has trouble. So, I am wondering, should I retry going through the whole procedure of resetting the bevel and then advancing up the grits and should I use a different technique? I was thinking of using the magic marker test to figure out if my bevel is evenly distributed across the whole edge or not. Or maybe I should simply spend some time at 12k stone to make the edge a little more refined? Im thinking that I could try it out with the rolling x stroke illustrated in the Library section.

Check the search function for rolling X stroke. Nice razor!
That will do er!
~Richard

Yes, there's a difference. The difference will be in how the edge makes contact with the hone. To get a good idea of your problem, take a coin and mimic the angle of a razor on a hone. You'll quickly see how little of the coin is touching a flat surface. This is what is happening with your razor. Do a search on a rolling x stroke to see how best to overcome it.

let me also add that if you're new to honing, you'll want to send this one out until you get a chance to figure this one out. It's not the most challenging thing in life but it's sometimes tough enough just to pick up honing let alone a blade not making good contact with the hone.

Check out this PDF file from the SRP library help files. It illustrates in word and line drawing a method to deal with that.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...t_-_Honing.pdf

Also what Richard said ....... Rolling X stroke - Straight Razor Place Library

So if I want to use the rolling x stroke, is it necessary to use that technique with the whole progression, from bevel setting at 1k up until polishing at 12k? I guess I can just try to take it up at 12k with the rolling x the way it is right now, and if that doesnt work, its not a big deal, Ill just go through the whole progression again. Thanks for the useful advise!

You don't have to use the rolling x through the whole progression, but you DO have to use whatever stroke that will allow you to make contact with the entire edge for the entire progression.

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Originally Posted by ecks

So if I want to use the rolling x stroke, is it necessary to use that technique with the whole progression, from bevel setting at 1k up until polishing at 12k? I guess I can just try to take it up at 12k with the rolling x the way it is right now, and if that doesnt work, its not a big deal, Ill just go through the whole progression again. Thanks for the useful advise!

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There are other ways but the rolling stroke is the easiest way to describe what needs to happen. But to answer your concern, yes you need to ensure that you're making contact all along the edge during all steps along the way. If you don't have a bevel at the edges, you polishing them at the end won't help. And if you do have a complete bevel but don't polish it thought the various grits along the way, the edge will be inconsistent and will under achieve during the shave. Smiling blades are more of a challenge. It's not impossible but because of their extra difficulty, I suggest sending this one out if your new to it.

If you try it yourself taking a magic marker (sharpie) and coloring the edge will tell you if you're making contact fhroughout the stroke. The hone will take the color off where it makes contact, and won't where it doesn't. I used to do that when I was new at honing. I'd wipe it off immediately with lighter fluid once I knew I had the correct stroke.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ecks

So if I want to use the rolling x stroke, is it necessary to use that technique with the whole progression, from bevel setting at 1k up until polishing at 12k? I guess I can just try to take it up at 12k with the rolling x the way it is right now, and if that doesnt work, its not a big deal, Ill just go through the whole progression again. Thanks for the useful advise!

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I am relatively new to honing and just went through this with a smiling W&B. I used the marker to ensure the bevel was set along the whole blade at 1K then moved up through the stones. Keep reapplying the marker until you get the feel of contacting the complete edge on the stone. By the time you get back to the 12K you probably won't need the marker any more as will have developed the feel. This worked for me.

this video series was a great help. gssixgun Honing a Smiling Wedge part 1.wmv - YouTube . Thanks gssixgun!

The rolling X is very good for both smiley type razors and razors with so much wear on the spine and bevel that the razor won't lay flat on the stone. Another technique that is successful for me is to angle the razor at 45 degrees and use that angle for your X strokes.

Have fun.

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Originally Posted by JSmith1983

You don't have to use the rolling x through the whole progression, but you DO have to use whatever stroke that will allow you to make contact with the entire edge for the entire progression.

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Just honed one the other day and a Frederick Reynolds.

I go through the same process. The Sheffields can be a bit more of a challenge, IMO. In my limited experience, they react differently to varying shave tests. Perhaps, not being extra hollow ground Solingens has a bit to do with it.

Charlie Lewis has a great videos on YouTube with the rolling x stroke on his new razors. Not to say that Lynn's aren't great as well because he goes into great detail when he explains it. The Lewis razors video has a little bit different perspective as far as the camera angle goes. I would watch that one first as its a bit more of a close up view of the stroke then watch Lynn's because he goes into great detail and is more descriptive. Both are excellent!

A lot of things can happen if you don't hit the edge evenly and none of them are good. You could get uneven hone wear or at least hone wear different from what you may desire, or weak toes/heels. Synthetics and some JNats can cut faster than you think they do, even at the finisher end, and so over time cause problems if you're not hitting the bevel evenly.

It isn't unusual to hone smileys in sections, but you still have to smooth things together at some point by "rolling the pressure", and almost everyone finishes up with an X stroke or rolling X stroke. It's a valuable thing to learn, so might as well do it! A narrow hone can help you learn if you have one.

Make sure you note the spine wear and bevel wear before honing, go lightly and check often during honing for uneven wear that may be a sign of an uneven stroke. My own stroke tends to be heel-heavy so I have to watch that.

Cheers, Steve

hello everyone, I just wanted to say thanks for the great help and feedback! A week ago I was able to successfully sharpen a smiling wedge using a magic marker to know where I have set the bevel and where I missed a spot. I also used the video that john3126 posted and just worked through the hones. The shave was much better this time around. As a follow up, I just wanted to know is there any difference in stropping a smiling wedge? My strop is pretty thin in width and I usually use something like a x-pattern since the edge is too big to fit across the whole strop. So would it be a good idea to use something like a swooping-x when stropping to make sure the toe gets stropped as well? its just something ive been thinking about.

Nice work for using the marker pen on the bevel - it really does make all the difference. I nearly had a breakdown trying to hone a wedge with a smiling profile and 'interesting' warping - using a marker pen it made the whole process clearer.

I use a sort of windscreen-wiper motion when I'm stropping - making sure that I'm starting from the edge and that I reach the other edge by the end of the stroke.