My First Razor - Need Opinions

I ordered my first straight, a GD 66 for 6$ shipped. But after reading around I decided to get a vintage one also.
Vintage Columbia Cutlery Co Extra Hollow Ground Straight Razor 11 16 | eBay

I ordered that. I already have lots of water/oilstones from knife/japanese sword polishing. I did order a purple welsh stone w/ slurry, and will be getting a DT and the finer black one to complete the set. If i'm gonna spend 100$ or more on a stone it would be a toishi for sword polishing so the welsh stones will have to do for honing.

I have 400/1k/3k waterstones and blue grey uchigumori-hato bench stone. Besides an assortment of oilstones but I use those for knives. Also will be upgrading to a 3" wide strop from my current 2" one I made.

Basically my question is this. Even as an advanced knife/sword polisher would it be hard for me to get my straights shave ready without a professionally done example on hand? I'm possibly thinking of a flawed blade from whippeddog for 28$, but only if really necessary.

Welcome to SRP and I am posting this to see what the responses are, might be worth asking the moderators to move this to the honing forum.

A razor is a slightly different discipline, make sure the hones are lapped 100% flat and not cupped in any way as there is no tolerance with a razor. With mine I use a 600 grit diamond hone with hardly any pressure under water and then once the pencil pattern is removed wash down thoroughly both before and after use. This is a bit excessive but I tend to be OCD when it comes to the edge I put to my face. Further, if you have not got the technique of shaving with a Str8 yet then it will be difficult to determine if the issue is the edge you have produced or technique of shaving with it. In light of your experience give it a go, if the razor rips your face off it may be technique or the honing has not worked, just don't get discouraged if this happens is all. If it works and works well, please share your experiences with us over the differences and your opinions.

Hi, welcome here.
The Columbia cutlery one looks good but will not be shave ready.
Take the whipped dog razor for reference.
Train yourself on the gold dollar, you should be able to get a satisfying edge at least in some part of the blade in less than a week and that will help you to understand how it works.
Do yourself a favour and buy a good 8k norton waterstone, honing a razor is too difficult to start with a hard and unknown welsh slate.

I can probably help you on this as I am/was in a very similar position to you, though I have never polished any swords I have sharpened he hundreds of knives.

First thing would be to get your hands on a shave ready razor so that you have a reference point to know what to aim for. You can have a go without having a reference but trust me on this, what you have in your mind of sharp now is NOT shave sharp. The edge on a razor is nothing like what I expected it to be, I got a shave ready full hollow grind and what surprised me the most was how thin the edge actually is.

Many of the techniques you know already will certainly help, for example I've bought a few old razors off eBay now and have no problems at all setting a bevel on any of them so far regardless of the shape of the spine or blade. Years of learning to hold that constant angle while sharpening knives have stood me in good stead there and I'm sure you will have no troubles there either. My issues started when I started refining the edge(I'm not even going to suggest anything here as there are lots of post from people with far more experience than me which will be worth reading), needless to say its a whole new ball game from here on in. A razors edge is far more sensitive than anything you have come across experimental experiences before.

Having said all that I am enjoying the new challenge of honing razors and I'm sure you will :)

edit: Just noticed that you say your highest grit is 3k......you are going to have to invest in some higher grit stones if you want to hone razors. 3k no where near high enough, some of these guys set bevels on a higher grit than your 3k ;)

I mean no insult, however you will not be able to properly hone a straight razor. Razors are a whole new ballgame. Please do yourself and your face a favor and send your razor to someone who is a veteran at honing razors.

BTW, most all razors are normally honed to 8K and then finished on a even higher grit. My personal razors are honed to 16K and then finished on either a 20K or Escher (12K+ natural stone)

I'm with shooter, and would add that buying/owning many stones means nothing if you don't take the time to sit down and learn how to use each on razors.

Get a loupe, something like 40x. Check after every little step what the difference is, it will teach you a lot :)

Hi and welcome. You may indeed be able to but would you know that you have achieved it without comparison. Start with a professional honed blade and start your honing by touching up when the time comes. Practice with the GD and if it goes well move on from there. Better to add hone wear the GD while learning. Good luck

You'll help yourself out by getting a blade honed.

The welsh stone will be slate (I believe) and from what I gather, will be comparable to an 8k grit. If one of your oilstones is a very dense, such as a translucent or black Arkansas, that'll do for finishing but it'll take a lot of strokes (that's what she said...) Chromium oxide is a badass tool to have in your arsenal, I'd look into getting some and applying to linen/canvas/polywebbing.

Your set up seems doable: 1k-3k-Welsh slate-dense oilstone/chromium oxide. Having the stones is only part of the process though. Set a decent bevel and the rest of the the process should be good to go.

I decided to send it away to be honed professionally. I opened the package and it is in amazing condition with no hone wear. So I don't want to hurt it. It looks way better than in those pictures.

I figure between that and a whippeddog, i'll be good until my strop materials and other hones arive(i'm getting the other welsh slates soon to finish set). I can mutilate the gold dollar while I wait for them to arrive.

My question now is, what is the least expensive but good place to send my razor.

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Originally Posted by HunterHagan

I decided to send it away to be honed professionally. I opened the package and it is in amazing condition with no hone wear. So I don't want to hurt it. It looks way better than in those pictures.

I figure between that and a whippeddog, i'll be good until my strop materials and other hones arive(i'm getting the other welsh slates soon to finish set). I can mutilate the gold dollar while I wait for them to arrive.

My question now is, what is the least expensive but good place to send my razor.

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Check the member services in the classifieds over here. There are quite a few options, I believe starting around $10.

Hint: To the OP I highly suggest putting your local in your info, if we know your general location we can direct you even better ..

SRP also has multiple Meets and Mentors across the world, and honestly there is nothing more informative then a Meet or a meet up with a Mentor to boost your Razor honing skills.. It really shouldn't take you much at all to go from Sword polishing to Razor honing you have the general principles and touch down you just need a bit of direction...


Good Luck

Thanks for all the replies and help! I will update my info today.

For the record, i'm in Sonoma, California... wine country. Any members around north bay?

One thing makes me wonder: Why spend hundreds of dollars on honing equipment and then buy a rusty old razor for a few bucks?

@OldSalt

I've spent basically nothing on honing equipment. And the Razor is near immaculate, no rust at all.

So far only 1 stone has been bought for my razors. An 18$ welsh slate. That and a 20$ razor hardly equals hundreds.

99% of my gear is for japanese swords or knives(any style), and isn't anything new.

So what the hell are you talking about? Everything listed I had already owned before even thinking of a straight. My only new stuff geared towards razors is the cheapo welsh mini hones, and a bigger strop(wanted one for jap sword sharpening anyway)

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Originally Posted by OldSalt

One thing makes me wonder: Why spend hundreds of dollars on honing equipment and then buy a rusty old razor for a few bucks?

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I have spent hundreds of euros on honing equipment and have bought a small pile of rusty old razors. I like restoring them and beneath the rust is usually good steel. A razor can only give a good shave with a good edge, and a good edge comes from good honing equipment. Rusty razors can be made to work just as well as new ones :)

If there were more people selling second hand Shapton Glass Stones, I would have bought those to save some money, but seeing as there are so few, I bought mine new.

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Originally Posted by HunterHagan

So what the hell are you talking about?

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I asked a simple question. How about giving a simple answer without cursing? People are so easily offended these days........

Do what ever you want.

Best wishes,
OldSalt

It was somewhat presumptuous and more than a little rude - at least the structure and content of your, admittedly terse, post left such an impression. That's the problem with writing in general: it departs from you, the master author and is then reconstructed by readers who might come to very different conclusions in regards to the meaning of your message. Sometimes a sapient author's writing will be left to the interpretation of senseless simians and sometimes vice versa.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OldSalt

I asked a simple question. How about giving a simple answer without cursing? People are so easily offended these days........

Do what ever you want.

Best wishes,
OldSalt

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At least i'm straight forward, instead of acting all passive aggressive and making false assumptions. The question you asked being far from simple when you consider how incorrect your view of me is.

Also, if I were cursing there would be much stronger words than "hell" being used.

Finally, I emailed nun2sharp, I hope he is still around to hone. If not I guess I will have to deal with the waiting period for Lynn.

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Originally Posted by HunterHagan

At least i'm straight forward, instead of acting all passive aggressive and making false assumptions. The question you asked being far from simple when you consider how incorrect your view of me is.

Also, if I were cursing there would be much stronger words than "hell" being used.

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Please, if in doubt assume that the poster is not attacking you and do not escalate things. This is international forum and you can notice the member is from Germany, so there may be a language barrier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HunterHagan

I ordered my first straight, a GD 66 for 6$ shipped. But after reading around I decided to get a vintage one also.
Vintage Columbia Cutlery Co Extra Hollow Ground Straight Razor 11 16 | eBay

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That razor is heavily sanded and not done well at all (the pitting, the rounding of the spine, the sandpaper scratches are all there). I don't know how much polishing goes on a sword, but if you have extensive experience you should be able to do a lot better than what the previous owner did.
At least it looks like he hand sanded it and din't use power tools, the incompetent use of which could destroy the temper of the razor.

For future reference natural hones tend to be slow, so the jump from your 3k to a natural may be quite challenging. Normally one would use a slurry to speed up the cutting, but even with that what would be 20 strokes on a norton 8k may be hundreds and even more on a natural hone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HunterHagan

At least i'm straight forward

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If you were, you would just tell me that you like to restore razors or whatever..... The view I got of you assembled after you shot at me...... Before that, I was just wondering and asked my question. Sorry I was interested.

I thank gugi for his assistance, but I'm completely bilingual.

Enough said. Good Luck with your honing and don't forget: It's not a matter of life and death here. We're here to have fun and gain and spread knowledge.

OldSalt

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Originally Posted by OldSalt

I thank gugi for his assistance, but I'm completely bilingual.

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So, you are then intentionally continuing this line?

If you guys don't drop it, you may get a time out for reflection. If you need further discussion on who behaved how, please do it over private messages.

Your on the right path with your purchases.

The GD is considered to be one of the best learning tools available. It's a cheap razor that when honed can shave. And in learning to hone one you will gain 1000% more understanding of how a razor works, As other have posted there not at all like knives.

You also already have the basics of a honing kit. The 1K and 3K stones are very much bevel setters for a razor. Think about an 8K either norton or naniwa. I have a naniwa myself and the bevel it creates is near mirror.

A 1,3,8 rotation is more than possible, And it should leave you with a nice finish to go onto your natural stones. Or to go directly to a Chrome oxide laced strop and then onto a plain strop.

Your strops are important. Not in terms of leather quality, I've found very little difference in shaving feel from expensive and cheap leather strops (just make sure there real leather). There important because if you don't strop your edge will never be 100% shave ready. You strop for at least 100 laps on leather before each shave, and if you forget you will know about it. Stropping itself is an art and you will destroy your first and perhaps second to silly mistakes. So take full advantage of whipped dogs poor mans strops, Or get a leather off cut from the bay so you can make your own.

Get some electrical tape. Black works best... Red is faster but more reckless. Use it to put 1 layer of tape on the spine of your razor before you go onto the hones. The easy way to do this is to cut a 6" length. Then hold it sticky side up in your left hand. Now put the spine of the razor about dead center on the tape. Lift the tape with the spine, then use your left hand, Thumb and fingers to slowly work the tape round the spine, And eventually over the side of the razor. The tape keeps your spine from loosing material, stops the spine and finish getting scratched, And increases your edge angle by a very tiny amount. It's also a perfect pressure indicator as you re-learn to hone, The tape should only get light wear, If your grinding through it your using too much pressure, If your not wearing it evenly you need to adjust your stroke.


Keep your elbows high when honing. If your elbows are high you will keep a more even pressure on the spine, and your less likely to pull or push the stroke.

Hone with your fingertips. Grip the razor between the thumb and first finger, Your little finger acts as a counterbalance under the scales. The razor should just sit perfectly if you grip right at the shoulder. If you hold it like this it's actually very hard to apply a lot of pressure to the spine and edge as your little finger will act as a pressure gauge.

Iceni - the GD considered to be one of the best learning tools available? Not in my opinion. Some (most?) have such an array of hard to correct faults that without having an idea of what you are doing you don't stand much of a chance. And if you do have an idea of what you are doing, by virtue of that fact you are not a learner.

In my opinion the best learning tools are a razor with no issues and a decent set of known synthetic hone stones. Once you have learned the basics is the time to tackle difficult unknowns like a GD.

Regards,
Neil

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Iceni - the GD considered to be one of the best learning tools available? Not in my opinion. Some (most?) have such an array of hard to correct faults that without having an idea of what you are doing you don't stand much of a chance. And if you do have an idea of what you are doing, by virtue of that fact you are not a learner.

In my opinion the best learning tools are a razor with no issues and a decdnt set of known syntbetic hone stones. Once you have learned the basics is the time to tackle difficult unknowns like a GD.

Regards,
Neil

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Could not have said it better. GDs are poorly shaped and the 8 I worked on all required the removal of the stabiliser. They are fun to play with, but I wouldn't start with anything higher than a proper 1K stone when honing them up, they require a lot of attention.

Having done the exact opposite of Neil's suggestions, I'm inclined to second his suggestion. With this said, I'm kind of glad I did, in a way - it taught me a lot in a short space of time and left a lot of room for experimentation.

Of course, the problem with taken this road less traveled is that it is harder to navigate, cloaked with brambles and infested with feral wolves.

The Gold Dollar, unless it's had the shoulder ground down will require a very acute angle to keep the shoulder from improperly lifting the edge up on the hone, so I'm told. I have one that's had the shoulder ground and it hones normally, but it is a large heavy and crudely made razor. Be sure it doesn't have sharp edges especially on the toe that can scratch up your strop, but if you polish knives and swords you know what to do.

I came from knives myself and looking back on it, I actually think it was not helpful in learning to hone razors. My biggest issues were too little time on the stones and too much pressure for a razor as compared to knives I wondered why razor folks had much coarser stones than knife people, and it's because if you're restoring a bevel for example, you can't push very hard on the razor or the edge will flex. With a knife you can bear down.

Get a nice small JNat dedicated to razor finishing since you're used to them. One of our members, Alx, is Alex Gilmore who conveniently runs thejapanblade.com in Sonoma. He's a wealth of knowledge about razors, tools, and JNats.

Good luck and let us know how you get on, I'm interested to hear the experiences of another knife/sword person beginning to hone razors.

Cheers, Steve