Chromium oxide ?????

Hi everyone
I've always have been shaving straight of the hones (purple welsh slate) but recently I have ordered some chromium oxide for the first time, so I've applied it to a piece of leather I had left over after making strop. After about 20 passes I realised the chromium oxide really scratches my bevel, I have taken couple if pictures to show you guys what I mean bare in mind those are just close up made with smartphone (htc 8x) Attachment 166265Attachment 166266Attachment 166267Attachment 166268Attachment 166269
Pictures show 2 razor I stropped on this CrOx one on leather and one on just plain printing paper. Edge looks much more scratched then after my purple hone but it shaves ok, my question is are those scratches from 1K maybe or is the CrOx I bought unusable? My honing progression is 1k/6k combo ice bear from King then Dragons Tongue and finish on the Purple with and lather. Just to let everyone know I bought this CrOx from merchantUK/taylors1000 seller on ebay.
20g Chromium Oxide Straight Razor strop Dressing CrO | eBay

Looking at the page the seller uses it as a polishing compound after 2500 grit wet dry on the blade?
Thus the picture with half poished (direct quote) and Fully Polished.
Quality stuff can be had but I am second guessing what this seller is offering.

I'm of no help here as I don't use anything on my strops after honing. I'm hoping that the Big Guns who have honed 1000's more razors than I have and do use coated strops will chime in.:shrug:

With that said; I love the feel of an edge right off of a Naniwa12K. :tu

So how’s the shave?

Lots of deep stria, perhaps your “Purple stone” is not finer than your “DT”
And both may not be finer than your 6K.

Don’t know that Chrome Ox, what matters is purity and grit size.

Or you’re not spending enough time at each progression, removing the previous stones stria.

thank for feedback, the shave is not to bad actually is not as comfortable as shaving of the stone. The dragons tongue I have definitely improves edge over 6k so I would call it about 7maybe 8k level and the purple hone I have is rather fine maybe 10 to 11k it leaves nice hazy but no scratched bevel, I just have rubbed the tang of the razor I'm currently working one and it scratches metal to the point I can see them with naked eye, ill to re hone one of the razor from pictures on my purple hone for comparison tomorrow.

Take a razor and hone it on 6K then mark the blade at the half way point with a sharpie on both sides. Now hone the toe half, with the next stone in your progression without any slurry, keeping the middle mark on the edge of the stone, the heel end hanging off the stone.

Now you have something to compare it to, look at the bevel at the marks and see if your DT leaves finer stria than you 6K.

You will not be able to determine what the grit range is, but you can tell if it is finer and you are going in the right direction.

Do the same with the DT and Purple stone.

What matters with a Natural stone is not just how smooth the bevel is, but what is the particle size and consistency. It can produce a very fine stria and a smooth bevel, but if just one grit plows a grove in your bevel, it may be useless.

In your case it would appear, that you are not removing the 1K stria with the 6K and each stria set with the each of the following progression.

Spend enough time on each stone to remove the previous stones stria. No matter the hone, you have to learn each stone and squeeze out the maximum performance from each one, beginning with the 1K.

Hone on you finishing stone without slurry and add slurry only after you have learned what your stones are capable of.

Slurry is a whole other art form and at this stage in you learning will just complicate your results.

Until you properly hone the bevels, it does not matter the brand or quality of the Chrome Oxide. It is just paste, not Magic Dust.

I like the use of light at that angle in your photos. They accentuate the stria and don't hide the defects.
~Richard

ok as promised I've honed one of the razors (the one which pictures are on top in original post) with my normal progression tried to replicate the conditions for picture

1000 grit king ice bear
Attachment 166358Attachment 166359

6000 grit ice bear (should have spent little more time on that one perhaps)
Attachment 166360Attachment 166361

Dragons Tongue (in picture the scratch pattern looks worse than 6k but believe me this is only because the bevel from DT is not as shiny helps ta capture the scratches)
Attachment 166362

Last picture the Purple hone LLYN MELYNLLYN I found it is called, usually I just shave of this bevel and shave is smooth and forgiving, actually taking the picture shows some scratches maybe from 1k than I never see with naked eye, ill take her back to 6k tomorrow
Attachment 166364Attachment 166363

Now I have taken the other razor and stropped it on the "CrOx" but this time I stropped from toe to hill instead of hill to toe movement, what I can see is crosshatch pattern, this tells me the CrOx is not pure, the scratches are definitely from it as I never ever ever hone toe to hill.
Hope this warns people as not to buy this CrOx as the strop dressing like I did, at least I have some polishing compound.
Now the question is where can I get the pure stuff, I know Tony Miller from strop shop UK sells some stuff, is it the pure stuff though?
Any father advice on honing would be helpful too. Regards Rafal

The last set of photos is not as clear on the bevel as the first ones you took. Try to replicate that lighting conditions, those photos were amazing for a phone camera. Try to get the bevel closer to parallel to the lens.

Also when you photograph the bevels for comparison mark the razor with a dot of ink and record the same spot each time. You can use different colors or multiple dots if you are comparing multiple sections or sides. You cannot compare different parts of the blade, you must compare the same section of the bevel and edge.

Hone each progression in alternating angles for each stone so you can easily see if previous stria is removed.

For example hone the 1K straight 90 degrees to the edge, then the next stone at 45 degrees. Look to see if all the 90 degree stria is removed. Inking the bevel of the 1k will make it easier to see on the 6k stria, as it fills the deep stria and will easily show up on 6k stria if not removed. Colored ink is easier to see, as black ink can look like a shadow.

You really have to see in side by side comparison, to tell if you finish stones are finer than you 6K, or you are spinning your wheels.

Work systematically testing for one result at time, eliminating as many variables as possible. To say the Chrome Oxide is faulty when stropping a bevel with multiple levels of stria running in all directions from stones of unknown girt and partial size, is a false conclusion or at least very suspect.
Definitely not empirical, enough to malign a vendor.

Don’t discount your Chrome Ox until you get the honing down. But questionable purity Chrome Oxide will always be questionable. Contact the vendor and find out the purity or source.

Good, “Known Good” razor quality Chrome Ox is not that expensive.

If u blackened the edge with a magic marker before you started on the next grit.. Then when u hit the next grit and the magic marker is gone from your bevel would it be a good indicator that you have replaced the prior scratch pattern with the current hone scratch pattern??

Yes, only on high grit stones, maybe 8K and up.

Works well for high grit natural finishing stones. On high grit stones the ink is about the same thickness as the stria. And you are filling the stria with ink, so once all the ink is gone so is the previous stria, of course, YMMMV.

Inking works well when removing deep 1K stria by filling the bottom of the 1k stria and it shows up easily under the next progression if not removed.

The 1K is the most important stone and truly the building block of building an edge. And that is a good way to look at it, each step as a building block and each block must be straight, plumb and level or the top of the wall, (the edge) will never be straight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

The last set of photos is not as clear on the bevel as the first ones you took. Try to replicate that lighting conditions, those photos were amazing for a phone camera. Try to get the bevel closer to parallel to the lens.

Also when you photograph the bevels for comparison mark the razor with a dot of ink and record the same spot each time. You can use different colors or multiple dots if you are comparing multiple sections or sides. You cannot compare different parts of the blade, you must compare the same section of the bevel and edge.

Hone each progression in alternating angles for each stone so you can easily see if previous stria is removed.

For example hone the 1K straight 90 degrees to the edge, then the next stone at 45 degrees. Look to see if all the 90 degree stria is removed. Inking the bevel of the 1k will make it easier to see on the 6k stria, as it fills the deep stria and will easily show up on 6k stria if not removed. Colored ink is easier to see, as black ink can look like a shadow.

You really have to see in side by side comparison, to tell if you finish stones are finer than you 6K, or you are spinning your wheels.

Work systematically testing for one result at time, eliminating as many variables as possible. To say the Chrome Oxide is faulty when stropping a bevel with multiple levels of stria running in all directions from stones of unknown girt and partial size, is a false conclusion or at least very suspect.
Definitely not empirical, enough to malign a vendor.

Don’t discount your Chrome Ox until you get the honing down. But questionable purity Chrome Oxide will always be questionable. Contact the vendor and find out the purity or source.

Good, “Known Good” razor quality Chrome Ox is not that expensive.

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I understand what you are saying, not I'm not calming to be even good at honing I'm still a beginner. However when I hone a razor I always hone it in one direction, in the way that all the scratches are in the same direction. Now I have taken the razor from first post and I've stropped it on the CrOx but in opposite direction in a way that if the CrOx creates deep scratches on the razor they will be cross configuration and that is exactly what I have seen, so it must mean the scratches are made by CrOx.
I will try to capture the scratches however it is extremely hard process with the phone camera. About the pictures I have submitted yesterday I tried to replicate the lighting but clearly I was unsuccessful the only way to compare the scratch patter is if I would have access to microscope, then replicating the pictures would be much easier, the other option is just to see the after different stages in person. I have contacted the seller today as of his source of the chromium oxide hoever I still did not receive reply, I will inform you of whatever he says in the reply.
Regards Rafal

just quick addition I've stropped it maybe 5 time on each side.

Interesting thread. I would try CrOx from a more reliable source to see if you get the same scratch pattern. I use CrOx from SRD, but I know you're in the UK and the shipping cost could be a problem. If Neil Miller sells CrOx I would get it from him.

today I have received message from the seller
"Hi I am sorry you are experiencing problems, the particle size is around 1.5 -1.8 microns
I use it, 10 laps after honing, did use it mixed with a light oil for polishing but now use a green wax bar.
I can honestly say i have sold 100's of packets & yours is the first complaint, The wholesale advertises it as high quality & supplies to business
http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwiki/index.php/Category:Stropping"
Here is the answer too the problem particle size is 1.5 - 1.8 microns
Regards Rafal

Just received another message from the vendor, he offered me a refund earlier however I said it wasn't necessary as I still can use the CrOx as buffing compound. So he offered to send me a packet of red oxide which he has ( I assume ferrous oxide ) which states 0.3 to 0.4 microns, once I receive that ill let you know my findings.

Ok so yesterday I have received the red oxide from the merchant, it is ferrous oxide so I was a little comprehensive as a doubt rust is harder than razor steel, never less water carved Great Canyon and I reallllllly doubt water is harder than rocks over there. I didn't have any clean leather anymore, but I should soon. I sprinkled a little of the powder on a folded plane sheet of paper (90gs I believe). I put the paper on smoothest stone I had and did a little stropping. I did about 20-25 strops on each side with no pressure, and the shave is surprisingly good, not so much sharper as smoother than just stone. Soon I will get some chromium oxide with right particle size and compare the result. I'm gonna try progression CrOx to FrOx to plain leather as well, but that all in time.
Rafal

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RafalS

Ok so yesterday I have received the red oxide from the merchant, it is ferrous oxide so I was a little comprehensive as a doubt rust is harder than razor steel, never less water carved Great Canyon and I reallllllly doubt water is harder than rocks over there. I didn't have any clean leather anymore, but I should soon. I sprinkled a little of the powder on a folded plane sheet of paper (90gs I believe). I put the paper on smoothest stone I had and did a little stropping. I did about 20-25 strops on each side with no pressure, and the shave is surprisingly good, not so much sharper as smoother than just stone. Soon I will get some chromium oxide with right particle size and compare the result. I'm gonna try progression CrOx to FrOx to plain leather as well, but that all in time.
Rafal

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i swear by CrOx and FeOx for refreshing my razors when they begin to pull, as well as at the end of my honing regimen.

i have learned from allot of very experienced members here on SRP that the most important thing when it comes to purchasing chromium oxide paste, powder or a crayon is the quality of the chromium oxide itself, or the percentage of purity... generally I go for a product that is at least in the 99.9% range...

the way I understand it is that if you buy a less pure chromium oxide from a less than reputable dealer... let's say a hardware distributor... you can end up with other substances within the powder or paste which can cause the particle size to vary greatly..... straight razor quality CrOx should have particles between 0.3 to 0.5 microns... some users on the forum have used a microscope and have noted that some chromium oxide from some vendors have particle sizes mixed in that go all the way up to several microns in size...

typically I buy my chromium oxide from either SRD, Lynn gets his CrOx crayon and mixes his liquid spray from the same source that the famous Mastro Livi gets his from...it is very high quality...

you could also try GemStar custom razors, Glenn (gssixgun) provides a pre-mixed paste which is 99.99% pure and is a great price, works beautifully.

also Larry @ Whipped Dog Razors sells 99.9% pure Chromium Oxide and Iron Oxide powder which come from Kremer pigments....its very easy to mix with a small amount of plain mineral oil until you get a paint-like consistency, then simply apply a small amount to one side of a piece of balsa wood and spread it out nicely, then; once dry do the same on the opposite side and you've got yourself a VERY affordable homemade pasted strop

I'm going to try the legendary strop maker Neil Miller just because of the postage cost, its kind of un economical to buy from states. Neil sells 10g bags of cerium, chromium and tin oxides I just need to email him to ask about the particle size, but I can imagine whatever he have is what should be used for stropping.