How I hone and set my edge (a cheaters guide to setting the edge)

Ok, first and foremost I am not a pro or experienced in any way at honing. I've only been honing my razors for about 6 months at this point. I have had success in being able to make all my own razors shave ready but have struggled at times with one razor but not the next. I knew all along that the reason or issue I was having was a properly set bevel. I started off learning the basics using a Norton 4k/8k and had recently added into the mix a 1k Norton and 12k Superstone. I had a piece of glass cut the size of a sheet of sanding paper for lapping my stones. I fold up a couple towels in the sink and set the glass on these so that I can run water over it while I lap. Been happy with the results and cost effective to boot.

Back to the point of this post, bevel setting. I have about 15 razors currently all sourced from my local antique shops. Up until now I had been following what I had seen in the videos, trying to glean as much information from them as I could. The pro's will talk about the heel not being set.. and giving a few more strokes .. bam they are done and are popping hairs. All of us who are learning have watched these and wondered why our first razor honing did not go like theirs did!

What I learned is that I can't do this without a jewelers loop. I added a loop into my bag of tricks but the problem is that I don't have the eye or experience to tell when the bevel is set correctly. None of us noobs probably do. My trick that I stumbled upon is to do a quick progression up and work the blade on the higher grits while I am setting the bevel.

What this does is polishes the bevel only on the areas that are set correctly. So when I look at the edge in a loop, I see the edge being polished about 75% of the way but scratches neat the tip, I know that I have to work that area. Or I will find that most the blade polishes up but one side of the heel is not polished. I now know exactly what part of the blade I need to concentrate on to get the bevel set. I'll work that area on the 1k. Do a quick progression to polish the edge and then look at it with the loop to see if there are any areas that are not 100% correct.

I'm sure I'm not the first to do this but had not seen it described in any of the videos I had watched. This quick progression to a polished edge to find my flaws has really helped me. The pro's know by the feel of the draw on the stone or a quck glance at the edge under magnification. I needed to make it a little more obvious for my eye and this seems to do the trick.

Anyone else do it this way? If you are new to honing, get a loop and try it. Hope it helps someone else starting off.

G

Interesting read & I'm happy that you have been able to get your razors shave ready.

But,,,,

After spending the last four years learning on SRP & seeing many methods of honing here, I cannot advocate that anyone pursue this method of "bevel setting".

I have the feeling, since many of your razors came from antique stores, that the razors had many honing obsticles inherent in them,,,bad spines do to many reasons, chips, etc,,,, this probably led to your "experimenting" on bevel setting. Our library section gives clear advice on bevel setting, equipment to have on hand & links to discussions involving the setting of bevels & last but not least, the ability to open a thread & showcase your problem razor.

My opinion, the bevel should be set in it's entirety from the beginning,,,before moving up the ladder of grits. if your bevel is set from the beginning, then there will not be the problems at the heal & toe that you are finding,,thus sending you back down the hones to repair "sections" at a time. I can see this reaction/method becoming a nightmare for new honers & at the very least leading to an uneven , inconsistent edge. This resulting in a less than desirable shave, frustration, dissatisfaction & a return to another method of shaving.

I am by no means an expert on anything in life,,,so don't take this post personal,,,if your method works for you & your happy then that's all that matters.

It sounds like a longer way of performing a sharpie test. Apply sharpie marker to the edge of the blade, give it a few laps on the stone and see where it has been ground off by the stone. Give it a whirl.

It sounds to me like you could save yourself a little time and effort and do the same thing with magic marker on your bevel. It will show you where you are lacking in pretty much the same way. Once the bevel is completely set you can start climbing up.

Matt is clearly faster at typing

The issue at hand is the skill to be able to tell when the bevel is properly set. It is not that easy to tell for the untrained eye. 45 seconds on a finer grit made it so very easy to see where my problem was and not be guessing. I honestly don't see this as the giant pitfall you do. I found it easier to see the issue this way than with a sharpie. I did three razors this AM, two were simple razors to do, basic straight razor. Last one was a very narrow smiling simi wedge. While setting the edge on it, one end looked good to the eye and even looked good under the loop. 30 seconds on the 4k and 30 seconds on the 8k and back to the loop and I could instantly see where the problem was. One side of the blade was polishing about 75-80% of the bevel for about half an inch at the tail. It was not apparent to the naked eye. Back on the 1k, a little extra attention on that side of the blade and it was set.

This is nothing more to me than what we do with a sharpie except it was more apparent to my eye this way. YMMV

Y not just do a tnt ?? If it passes the tnt do 10 more laps then move on.. ?

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Originally Posted by Tripoli3

Anyone else do it this way?

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The excerpt below is from the SRP Library, "Honing Alternative Aproaches" which is basically a PM sent to me by Randydance062449 in 2007. So yeah, some other people do it that way. :)

Honing - Alternative approaches - Straight Razor Place Library

"Checking the edge with an eye loupe or a microscope will reveal any micro chips or other problems present that you may not be able to see with the naked eye. Applying a black magic marker to the edge and then doing a couple of strokes on either side will show you if the edge is making contact with the hone for the length of the blade and on both sides. This will let you know if you need to alter the stroke to make complete contact with the edge to the hone. (see; Strokes for honing a razor) Once you have seen which stroke it is necessary to use wipe the marker off with a solvent appropriate for the purpose. Use what ever number of strokes it requires to get rid of the nicks and establish a bevel. This is the most time consuming portion of honing a razor, be patient and persistent.

The purpose of the 1000 grit is to remove nicks and straighten/shape an edge. For that you use your eyes and the Thumb Nail Test (TNT), not the Thumb Pad Test (TPT). (see; Sharpness tests explained) The edge should be free of nicks and the bevel should go all the way to the edge. If you are using a hand held microscope then the bevel will appear as one color, if there are two bevels, old and new, then the light reflects off the bevel at different angles and appears as two colors. The scratch pattern should also be uniform for both the length and width of the bevel. When you have that then move on to the 4000, but not before."

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Originally Posted by Tripoli3

The issue at hand is the skill to be able to tell when the bevel is properly set. It is not that easy to tell for the untrained eye. 45 seconds on a finer grit made it so very easy to see where my problem was and not be guessing. I honestly don't see this as the giant pitfall you do. I found it easier to see the issue this way than with a sharpie. I did three razors this AM, two were simple razors to do, basic straight razor. Last one was a very narrow smiling simi wedge. While setting the edge on it, one end looked good to the eye and even looked good under the loop. 30 seconds on the 4k and 30 seconds on the 8k and back to the loop and I could instantly see where the problem was. One side of the blade was polishing about 75-80% of the bevel for about half an inch at the tail. It was not apparent to the naked eye. Back on the 1k, a little extra attention on that side of the blade and it was set.

This is nothing more to me than what we do with a sharpie except it was more apparent to my eye this way. YMMV

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This is insane. You can tell with your naked eye on a 1k using light reflection.

And +1 on the sharpie technique. Its black on silver. Doesn't get easier o see then that. I'd go banana sandwhich trying to get a bevel of my 12k.

And 30 seconds won't remove 100 % of scratches. And not to mention the probability of uneven pressure on the blade and if the bevel wasn't set on the lower grit then no duh you see problems on the higher grit.

Mind=blown.

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Originally Posted by Tripoli3

The issue at hand is the skill to be able to tell when the bevel is properly set. It is not that easy to tell for the untrained eye. 45 seconds on a finer grit made it so very easy to see where my problem was and not be guessing. I honestly don't see this as the giant pitfall you do. I found it easier to see the issue this way than with a sharpie. I did three razors this AM, two were simple razors to do, basic straight razor. Last one was a very narrow smiling simi wedge. While setting the edge on it, one end looked good to the eye and even looked good under the loop. 30 seconds on the 4k and 30 seconds on the 8k and back to the loop and I could instantly see where the problem was. One side of the blade was polishing about 75-80% of the bevel for about half an inch at the tail. It was not apparent to the naked eye. Back on the 1k, a little extra attention on that side of the blade and it was set.

This is nothing more to me than what we do with a sharpie except it was more apparent to my eye this way. YMMV

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A point that I may not have made clear , was that a bevel properly set, say with a 1K, erases any need to bounce back & forth through the higher grits.
Please by all means, use your method,,, & thank you for taking the time to show us,,,,,,

But,,,

I don't see this as a YMMV issue & I don't see it as a good suggestion to beginner honers.
Just my thoughts,,,,:shrug:

Thanks for the open and honest discussion! YMMV

Tripoli3, by all means continue if it works for you. There are many many roads that lead the same destination. Just thought it might save you a few minutes. The end result is what matters.

With experience you will be able to detemine bevel set with the loupe alone.
Something to watxch for on a properly set bevel is that things will be reversed. The edge will begin to polish up before the shoulder of the bevel.

Different strokes for different folks. Yuck yuck yuck. We have all been here, but as time goes on you will find better, easier methods for judging your bevel set. At first I didn't understand Lynn's tpt indicator but over time it worked. Keep honing and these skills will develop, but practice them even if you don't understand the feedback. Use your current method to coincide with what you're feeling and seeing with other tests. Now you are making a reference point for future tests. Good luck and keep us posted.

Thanks. I will give this a try. I use sharpies in reloading to check seating depths (to see if a bullet is engaging the lands in the barrel), but never thought about using it to see where your hone is missing the edges of your razor.

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Originally Posted by MattCB

It sounds like a longer way of performing a sharpie test. Apply sharpie marker to the edge of the blade, give it a few laps on the stone and see where it has been ground off by the stone. Give it a whirl.

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You guys drive me nutz with all the hoops you jump thru to set bevels.
Is all very simple,takes 10 secs with this nifty little device,got mine at the county fair,$1.99.
Attachment 168566

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

You guys drive me nutz with all the hoops you jump thru to set bevels.
Is all very simple,takes 10 secs with this nifty little device,got mine at the county fair,$1.99.
Attachment 168566

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Wow! Say goodbye to sharpies and tape for good. Now you gotta find a set that goes up to 12k lol

That picture made my teeth hurt...

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

You guys drive me nutz with all the hoops you jump thru to set bevels.
Is all very simple,takes 10 secs with this nifty little device,got mine at the county fair,$1.99.
Attachment 168566

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I wouldn't put my Wade & Butcher through that contraption.

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Originally Posted by WetShaveObsession

I know what this is. I have one, actully I have a few. This is a good opportunity for mme to learn. Isnt the purpose of setting the bevel not only to ensure that both sides of the razor meet at a center point but that threy also do so at the proper angle? Im not sure how to do that with this.

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They need to make a sarcasm font at some point lol

I occasionally use a loupe on a blade (usually a gouge, not a SR) to see what is going on with it when it doesn't "sound right" on the hone. You can learn a lot about your honing style doing it. Interpreting what you see is a whole other problem. I usually use the magic marker test first, though.
I do know honers that will sit and pour over the bevel with a microscope and do touch ups under the microscope. Maybe their blade cuts 1% better than mine, but is the time to achieve that 1% worth it? They think so, I do not.
After a few hundred hone sessions, you will start to know when the bevel is set by the sound and feel of the blade on the stone. Until then, I'd say do whatever you want/have to do to get the shave you want.

Geeez ,rough Crowd today,honing is not rocket science folks,Besides people charge to much to do it.
I have the tools,Look for my Ad in members Services,any Blade, 99 Cents.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3.../sparks001.jpg

I can see where you are coming from with your up and down hone idea, but even if the surfaces begin to look even this could just mean that the edge was hiting the hone uniformally and the bevel is not yet set. I've tried several tests but have settled on the razor across the back of a damp thumbnail. If it bites the bevel is set and as you slide the blade across the nail any spots where the bevel isn't set will slide.I'm still trying to get my head round how to tell if the scratches from the previous hone have been removed as I'm not sure how you tell which scratches have been made by which hone as they all run in the same direction. That's next on my list to concentrate on.

Lol that grinding wheel reminds me of a time I was in Turkey. There was a little old Turkish man in the market that was "sharpening" knives with one of them run off a small generator. The women were taking their kitchen knives to him. He would takes the knife and just let rip on the stone......sparks galore and no cooling in water for this chap ohhhh noooo sireee just lots of sparks and temper destroying heat. It still makes me cringe but I guess it was good for repeated business, he was there every week and no doubt doing the same knives for the same people as there is no way in hell that after he had his hands on them they would hold an edge :)

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Originally Posted by aa1192

They need to make a sarcasm font at some point lol

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In the past i think i have just typed "sarcasm font" or something similar, i have certainly brought up the same issue, now the question is, is pixels sarcasm being sarcasmed, or is it missed :)?

You guys are nutz!!! I only use a kitchen steel an I can literally take skin of my face. Lol [emoji12]

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Originally Posted by edhewitt

In the past i think i have just typed "sarcasm font" or something similar, i have certainly brought up the same issue, now the question is, is pixels sarcasm being sarcasmed, or is it missed :)?

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Mind blown!

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Originally Posted by criswilson10

I do know honers that will sit and pour over the bevel with a microscope and do touch ups under the microscope. Maybe their blade cuts 1% better than mine, but is the time to achieve that 1% worth it? They think so, I do not.

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Oh well.

Yes, I do sit while honing. I don't "pour [sic] over the bevel." It takes me all of maybe 5-10 seconds to check a bevel under the scope. No matter how the honing sounds or feels, both of which are valuable sources of feedback, the microscope is another invaluable tool to see the EXACT condition of the edge. Even after I hone as many razors as you may have, I will continue to make use of this tool when I evaluate razors and set bevels.

OP - you have found a method that works for you so use it for as long as you deem it necessary - like you I sometimes struggle to interpret what the loupe is divulging. As to those people who consider you can tell with a naked eye - they either have very superior sight or have never handled a razor with a very narrow bevel.

I don't understand why some posts are critical of going up the hones and back down again - this process is used all the time in a pyramid.