Grinding away trying to set a bevel

I'm in the middle of of setting a bevel for the first time.
I have freshened some edges dropping back down to 4K, then back up to 8K, 12K and the strop.
This is the first whack at setting bevel, and it is not going swimmingly.
Here is where I'm at;
I was using one layer of elect tape on a Rauf Aust.
Stone is a 1K.
Using a Sharpie, the edge was blackened.
What I'm seeing is the face side bevel has the black removed at the heel and toe.
The back side bevel has the black removed in the middle, with the toe and heel untouched.
After a couple of hours, I dropped down to a 600 MDT, then to a 320 MDT.
The middle and toe/heel spots are getting ground away while the untouched spots are getting smaller, but still there.
I have pretty much agreed to myself that the razor may be trashed by the time I'm done, but hopefully will know how to set a bevel.
Not being aware of doing something wrong, I plan to keep honing until the whole length of the edge is in contact with the stone.
The width of the bevel where it does touch the stone is getting pretty wide and unattractive.
The stones are dressed and flat.
Can an edge be not straight, or can the spine have a thickness variation that could produce this effect?
It seems to me that some drastic honing is needed here, unexpectedly, on a new razor.

I have not experienced that myself but it sounds like the blade is definately not laying flat on the hone weather it is the spine or edge is hard to tell with no pics.:p

As usual, someone with more experience will chime in. In the meantime-
But just a few questions out of curiousity - what shape was the edge in to begin with? Was there any obvious spine/edge problems?
Are you using x-strokes such that you are able to come off the hone to get to more of the edge?
Have you tried using slight pressure in the spots that aren't touching?
have you tried using a rolling X stroke?
It's unfortunate you have to use the Aust as a learner, but it is what it is. I think if you try some of things above you may start seeing what gets at the edge. I am no expert, but what helped me was just doing every method out there until I saw what it took to get to the edge given different blades and their own unique geometry.
For instance, I have a few that to get to the toe I literally have to bring the rest of the razor off the hone or a huge roll. No amount of reasonable pressure puts it flat. Same with heel, I have to go to a super narrow stone or corner to get to it. I don't have a lot like this, just a couple, but they can be a bear.

Also how did you flatten the stones?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UAcowboy

Also how did you flatten the stones?

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+1 my first question.
Then make sure that the spine is not warped...
And I stand aside for the smart guys to chime in about your pattern and pressure...

I used to have similar issues when I started out. I could touch up an edge but not set. It drove me crazy trying to work out why, and I blamed pretty much everything apart from the simple explanation, my stroke was awful. It's not so noticeable on a set bevel but unset it was really apparent. I watched a video or read a tip from Lynn, can't remember where I first saw it, but it was keep the elbow high. It keeps the stroke even and maintains contact better. As soon as I got comfortable with this my honing really improved. It might help if your not already doing it.

The simplest answer is usually correct I find.

Good luck solving what ever is causing it for you.

Oh one last tip, when it ain't going right put it down and go back to it later, some times a break is all it takes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neckbone

I'm in the middle of of setting a bevel for the first time.

After a couple of hours, I dropped down to a 600 MDT, then to a 320 MDT.

See below

I have pretty much agreed to myself that the razor may be trashed by the time I'm done, but hopefully will know how to set a bevel.

Great :(

Can an edge be not straight, or can the spine have a thickness variation that could produce this effect?

Yes and the bad news is it isn't extremely rare

It seems to me that some drastic honing is needed here, unexpectedly, on a new razor.

Drastic ???? No not really just a bit more experienced

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http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...bing-over.html


Read #1, read it again :(


Absolutely nothing good comes from continued Grinding away at steel and dropping lower and lower in grit and to keep grinding

This is the type of post where the guys that often say something like "Honing ain't Rocket Science" or something to that effect are proved wrong.. Honing is pretty easy right up until it isn't then things can go wrong in a hurry.. The thing to do is stop and ask for help as soon as it doesn't go right, not drop even lower and continue grinding away steel for hours..

Pics would probably help us help you at this point in time

"What I'm seeing is the face side bevel has the black removed at the heel and toe.
The back side bevel has the black removed in the middle, with the toe and heel untouched."

That sounds to me like the blade is warped. Or as you said the edge isn't straight.
So if you look at the blade edge with the face toward the ceiling, do you have a smiling blade?

A seasoned honer can still bevel and sharpen it, but it's not the type of blade you want to try to hone for your first time out.

Maybe it got damaged during shipping. Do the scales look like they have been bent in the middle? Any creases in the middle of the box it came in?

So I'm confused slightly. Did the razor originally come shave ready? I cannot get a picture in my head. Thoughts that come to mind are what shape is the blade? Have you used a flat surface to check to see if the blade is straight? Have you watched Glen's videos? A lot of the guys watch all the videos. I found it too confusing. I found that I liked the way Glens were filmed and the way he instructed as he was doing the honing, so I stuck with his and only his. So who evers videos you are using may I suggest you stick with one person until you have the process down.

Thank gawd we have pros to do the scut work:) Nothin finer for me than to send a blade off and get it back in perfect condition,good for at least a year or more.

Hmm, we have seen many posts about the Austs and I haven't seen a single one about a spine issue. Not that it isn't possible and if you were an experienced honer I wouldn't question it so I'm wondering if your honing is causing issues.

Personally I would never have messed with a good razor if I was starting out and needed some practice.

You probably need an opinion based on seeing the razor so I wouldn't venture any opinions until seeing the thing.

Walk away.....Who'd a thunk it!

It's got to be the razor.......cuz it certainly can't be me............

So,

For most new guys setting the bevel really is an activity that I recommend last when learning to hone (Yep, I saw that you had a couple successes from the 4K up). The reason is that when you drop down to lower grit hones, particularly when you use some pressure, it is very easy to apply the pressure unevenly. As mentioned, this is a key in why I recommend keeping the elbow up when honing. One of the things I have seen over the last couple years in new honers is that more pressure is being applied to the spine of the razor and then more pressure is being applied to one side vs. the other along with the pressure being uneven throughout the stroke. I have had some razors come in with magic marker still on the edge of the razor and gone on the upper part of the bevel. The key to the magic marker test is to remove the ink from the entire edge of the razor, not necessarily all the way up the bevel.

A razor like the Aust really should need no more than a couple sets of circles with firm pressure followed by your call on 30-50 X strokes and you are either there are pretty close to a nice bevel. Once uneven pressure has been applied and you have the kind of wear you are describing, it can even take me considerably more work to repair it regardless of whether you used tape or not and the uneven wear will not go away. The key at this point is not to worry about a pretty looking bevel, but to create a bevel that comes together at the edge so that it is serviceable again. You can be successful easier when using little pressure and honing a newer or not damaged blade from the 4K up to finishing.

Learning to hone is definitely a LEARNED skill! Most people do not set a perfect bevel first time out and regardless of the information out there and especially without hands on training, it usually takes someone a few times to start getting the hang of it. A lot of people look at everything other than this to find the fault and we also see the same thing with learning to shave. So, what ever you do, don't beat yourself up and definitely take the advise about walking away from the razor if it is not there after a couple tries.

It is extremely razor for a quality razor to be warped. In almost every case I have seen, I can lay the razor flat and it will lie flat with the only space that you can see or shine a light through corresponding to the wear that has been applied to it.

Stay with it, you'll get there and have fun.

Mail it off to someone who's done it before...please.

+1 on what Lynn said

Another thing, when I first started honing, for some reason I was better on the stroke going away from me than the one coming back and it took lots of practice to get both sides of the stroke the same.

Also make sure you watch some videos on the rolling X-stroke it's your best friend on razors like that

As we have no idea if the spine is warped or you caused the problem, a 2nd set of eyes may help.

Photos, Photos baby…

Yes, please stop and post some photos.

You can’t put steel back on… a coarser stone and/or more pressure are rarely the answer, for a novice almost never the answer.

Post some photos with the ink on the bevels, perhaps we can help figure out what is going on.

Oh, and you might want to post some photos…