Honing pressure ?

I'm getting decent shaves from my honing, but I believe it could be better.
One reason I think this is the failure of HHT and TTH tests. I've been told to ignore those hair cutting tests, but there has to be something to them.
Anyway, I fear lifting the spline on the stones, or not maintaining the proper contact. This is more so with the tradition hand grip seen in the videos.
As a result, I'm laying my index finger on the blade close to mid point to maintain good contact. My pressure is medium to light with slow deliberate strokes.
Now I wonder if that is the reason it can't get a HHT successfully.
Without the controlling finger, I feel the blade to stone contact suffers.
Am I screwing up?

Maybe, although a magic marker test will tell you easily whats what. I use two hands always and have no issues with pressure etc.

What is a TTH ????

How does your HHT works with a DE blade ????

We need lots more info before we can help you with getting even keener edges.
Stuff like what stones/progression are you using?
And what razors are you honing on them?

As to pressure, less is more once the bevel is set.
I suggest getting more practice without using your index finger on the middle of the blade.
Especially when doing the last two stages of your honing process.

Bevel set, sharpening, polishing and finishing are normally the four stages we go through with razors.
On setting the bevel I use quite a lot of pressure before finishing that stage much lighter.
When sharpening a steady but by no means heavy pressure seems to be what I use the most.
Again, easing up at the final laps.
This prepares for the next levels.

Once we arrive at the polishing and finishing stages, pressure is out the window.
Light as a feather, trust the stones.
They are effective even at very low pressure although it may be hard to feel it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

What is a TTH ????

How does your HHT works with a DE blade ????

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Sorry, I was guessing at the 'tree top' hair cutting initials. LOL
Good suggestion with the DE.

My concern is wobbling the blade on the stone.
I'll try feather light on 8k and 12k.
Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neckbone

Sorry, I was guessing at the 'tree top' hair cutting initials. LOL
Good suggestion with the DE.

My concern is wobbling the blade on the stone.
I'll try feather light on 8k and 12k.
Thanks.

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Until you have a baseline expectation, those Hair tests are pretty much useless, they have to be calibrated to tell you anything at all... This is the biggest reason we tell people they are useless from the get go...

Don't wobble the blade :D

The spine and the edge has to HAS TO stay in contact with the hone, the manipulations that are required to accomplish that are what we like to call "Honing Gymnastics" there are no shortcuts, the more you hone the better you get,,, Period, end of story... Feather light means diddly squat if you are not in contact evenly and equally across the hone with every stroke...

It is best to start pushing the envelope on a razor that is in excellent geometric form that you are very familiar with, and only after you are successfully getting shave ready edges easily...


Building into WOW edges is a slow process, and a fun one, don't try and rush it, sit back and enjoy the process

Gravity has been working without fail for millions of years. Trust in it!

Heck don't listen to these guys. Let me cue you in to something. These tests like the HHW and the HHT and the TPT are there only for the rookies so they think they are really accomplishing something when they are really not. Once you become highly experienced then you will realize the true tests that the rest of us use like the FOR test and the CTS test and the BFG test. Now those tests really rock and when you reach a level of honing nirvana like someone like Glen you rely on the ZOP test and the XYZ test.

Now you are probably asking yourself is this guy pulling my leg? I've never heard of those before. Of course you haven't because they are secret tests like when you join some secret organization and you have that secret handshake or secret move. They are so secretly guarded if they were divulged to folks not deserving of them all sorts of mayhem would reign down on you.

I'm sure Glen would love to tell you about the XYZ test because with that test you will have no doubt that your razor is so keen the test almost does the honing for you. Afterall that's how all our honemeisters can hone hundreds of razors a day and never have to test shave yet they can be sure the razor is at 110% of its potential.

So, the moral of the story is just hone and shave. When you are ready we will contact you.

:)

My original question was whether my index finger aiding the stone contact was keeping me from improving the edges. Bill3152 in post 2 answered that he was doing well with two hands. That makes me feel better.
But, now I'm sucked deeper into the discussion because of the suggestions you fellows offered.
Here is what I'm working with;
Two nice razors ( set aside for honing training)
DMT 320 plate
N1k, Norton 4/8k, n12k,
CO on web
Plain web
Bridle strop
40x loop
Sharpie
Black tape
Scuttle
Badger Silver tip brush
Tabac and Poroaso soaps

I'm trying various stroke counts, pressure, bevel setting, etc. to improve results.
Trying to breakout through a barrier is why I asked about the index finger, which is unorthodox.
Does it not make sense that two razors, one the cuts hanging hair and one that does not, that the haircutter would give a better shave? Can it all be varying hair types and conditions?
I'll keep on honing, while picking up tips from this site, with hopes of reaching higher honing skills.
Thanks guys.

This is a road that everyone must eventually travel alone. I will have to do that also one day. I could read all the instructions available and look at all the videos on the web, and find someone to assist me in learning to hone. In saying that, I guess what it really boils down to is doing it. Over, and over, and over, ad naseum until I get it down to where it is almost routine. i hope I can get there too. Good advice from all, and thanks to all.

I also use my index finger on the blade to keep it steady, but no real pressure other than the weight of the blade. Getting good shaves off 4/8k norton and a 12k nani progression followed by crox, linen, bridle stropping.

The biggest difference last go round was using circles on the 4k prior to pyramiding. It might just be in my head, but the blades seemed to come off the stones a bit sharper vs using x-stroke alone.

Neckbone,

Plenty of good info in the previous posts. However I think this video by Glen will be beneficial. I know it's helped a number of new honers. :gl:

Howard :)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vxrs5kF...%3Dvxrs5kFkmJg

I use my index finger just on the toe of the blade, I use the same or less pressure as the other hand and use no pressure on the finishing hone, just for stability and guiding purposes only. It works well for me

I hone with two hands - always have, always will - I just feel like I have more control over the pressure at the heel and the tip of the edge. My left hand (the hand at the tip) acts mainly as a guide and only comes into play when I'm doing rolling strokes.

I also happen to love the HHT - I believe once you understand the test and have standardized it for the hair you're using to test with it's very useful for judging sharpness - but only sharpness. How does the hair cut, how does it feel when it cuts, what kind of sound does it make, how far out will the blade catch and cut a hair held at the root end, how fine of a hair will the blade catch and cut, is the result the same along the whole edge etc etc. The shave test is always the final word but I like to know "how" sharp my edge is before I shave with it and that's where the HHT comes in.

No professionally honed razor I've ever received has been able to tree top my arm hair so I know if I've honed a razor and it will tree top my arm hair it's about as sharp as it's going to get. I go for both smoothness and as sharp as possible - that's what works best for MY face hair.

I also think there is a big disconnect between newbies and stropping. Stropping is magical. I often spend a half an hour stropping a newly honed razor to get it to the point I want it at. I don't count strokes except on the canvas. I strop on the leather (English bridal) concentrating on the heel, mid blade and toe for as long as it takes to get the HHT results I want to see. Then I shave and I'm never disappointed. I'd rather know what I'm shaving with then have a bad experience ripping up my face with a suboptimal edge. I'm at the point in my honing now that I know that all is needed is a good stropping to get a newly honed blade to my expectations - that took a year of honing daily, constantly experimenting, looking at my edges under my microscope etc. Now I'm addicted to my new Zulu Grey... I'm used to the ridiculous speed of a Shapton - the ZG takes some time to milk it's potential... and now I have a rare gnat on the way - can't wait!

-john

After the bevel set, I try not to use the words "honing" and "pressure" in the same sentence.

I get some very nice shaves employing this idea.

No two razors are exactly alike. True with all cutting tools, matters not if you're sharpening by machine or by hand. All tools must be approached individually.

Are you honing all the way to the edge on the 1K? Marker ink will tell you if you are, Dollars to Doughnuts, you are not.

If you see that ink is not removed at spots, the blade may be warped. Look at the opposite side at the same location and see what is happening on the reverse side.

Some finger pressure may assist in making contact as will Gymnastics talked about. First, figure out what is happening, then why, then how to resolve the problem.

If you are not honing to the edge, nothing else matters, it can never get sharp.