Can a razor be honed start to finish using only pastes?? and if so what type of pastes would you use to set a bevel. A buddy of mine on a different forum claims a razor can be honed without a hone? just pastes
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Can a razor be honed start to finish using only pastes?? and if so what type of pastes would you use to set a bevel. A buddy of mine on a different forum claims a razor can be honed without a hone? just pastes
I know dovo makes several pastes. Red, black and green. Also a yellow that serves as a leather conditioner. Of course diamond sprays work too
They all work to a point but I Doubt you could set a bevel with paste alone.
You may be rights and I agree with you but there are guys that say you can do it.
Im sure it can be done. There are pastes in all micron sizes. I think that the flexibility of the substrate would have a lot to do with the finished edge though. A yielding surface may not be the best to use although Im only guessing.
yea I've seen claims on that other forum where guys say you can set a bevel with paste. The question is why would you want to do that even if you could? Kind of like taking a bike ride across the us and using a single speed bike instead of one with multi gears.
I'm no honer but the glaring question for me is. Why would you:-S ??? Can't see the point when fantastic hones and dmt's are available. And to be honest the price isn't all that prohibitive.
I've set bevels with pastes on some molding hand planes. Never on a regular knife or razor though. It can be done, but it is time consuming. You embed the pastes into heavy leather and secure the leather into a sturdy board. Then you do a back hone motion until you get a wire edge. Breadknife it to break the wire edge and take a few more strops to clean up the break. Then move to the next smaller paste. I usually start with coarse automotive valve grinding paste, move through medium, fine, and extra fine valve paste. After that I don't make a wire edge anymore and then move to the red rouge, CrOx, and finish with diamond sprays.
It takes me about an hour to set a bevel and sharpen a plane iron with pastes. It only takes about 15 minutes to sharpen one with the proper profile stones.
I'm sure it could be done with a razor (better tape that spine), but a stone is faster and easier.
If you have the proper tools for a job, they should be used. I could walk to work, and it is not really that far, but I have this thing called a car so I use it. I would be concerned about building a convex profile into the bevel with pastes. Using pastes eventually does have that effect, but I wouldn't start an edge that way.
It can be sharpened without a hone, but it cannot be honed without a hone,,, :nono:Quote:
Originally Posted by Airportcopper
Like I always say, put an edge under some running water and in a hundred years or so you'll have the sharpest razor in the world. Of course you won't be around to use it.
send him a blunt razor and ask him to paste it for you, then give it a go, if it works keep using it for a while and see if the edge holds.
Back a long, long, long, time ago when I was very young I would drag a knife blade backwards on a stone to try to sharpen it. I would make it shinny but not sharp. it would have a wire edge own it and get dull very quick. when I learned to set the bevel as if I were cutting the stone and finish up on hard stones my knife stayed sharp longer. I don't know but it would seam to me that using paste and strop only would do the same. It may work fine but I think I'll follow Lynn's and others on honing. I know I may never be as good as Lynn or Sixgun or Max but so far I can shave with what I do. If it works don't fix it.
Stick with the stones,,,,,,,,,,,,:beer2:
Ah yes, knowledge vs wisdom.
Can it be done or should it be done?
Interesting answers here. Ive seen many post about using a coticule to set bevels. Ive never done it. Seems like a long time for me, but guys do it. It may not be main stream, but who knows what a pasted progression would bring. Good or bad. We got one fellow who actually has used it for tools. So I guess its the usual YMMV then. Im not interested in trying it as I have enough hones to do what I want to, but this may be something that at the end of the day may pan out for someone. Im of the opinion of whatever gets you here you want to be. Id love to hear from someone who uses it regularly though.
I think it could definitely be done on balsa but not leather - I think the flex of the leather would tend to round the edge too much to produce a usable razor.
Just my guess....
-john
Sometime back when I first joined this forum, one of the guys posted a link from one of the EU forums about bringing the razors into form on Loom Strops with Dovo Green, Red, & Black pastes..
I didn't believe it was possible and I didn't have a loom strop, but I did have a TI paddle strop, and an extra piece of leather (Thanks Doc), so I tried it after a bevel set, and was enlightened with the knowledge that is does work and rather well at that...
Bevel set with it ???? Yeah not me, you have fun with that experiment yourself, but after the bevel set, yeah it works, and it works with Dovo pastes which are comparatively speaking, a rather mild cutter...
Stop speculating and go try it
So using balsa in general to refresh; is rounding the edge never an issue like it would be on webbing? I know balsa has a little give in it. I use both balsa and webbing...generally anything with a taped spine while honing hits the canvas (without tape) and non taped blades hit the balsa.
I agree that if you were to try this that a balsa strop would seem the way to go. It's is cheap and less likely to round out the edge.
How'd you enjoy the shave from it Glenn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocelot27
Just to make this interesting :p
Why do some of you think that a "Rounded" "Convex" bevel is bad ???
Early stage honing Im thinking not good(Im guessing now LOL) but later on to finish convex is great IMO. My best Jnat edges are slightly con-vexed. And regarding synthetics, I use crox after 20k suehiro on a hanging linen strop. A yielding substrate IMO makes for a more comfortable edge.
Truthfully I've always been taught (from a knife/bushcraft background) that a slightly convexed edge would have better edge retention and strength due to the added girth of metal directly behind the cutting edge while still allowing for a very keen edge. So for me I think I convex edge on a razor would probably have exceptional edge retention. But.... Would be an absolute pita to get shave ready again once that edge is lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Damnit now I'm gonna go put my money where my mouth is and try to add a slight convex to a razor and see what happens.
I actually read it was a pretty good edge type with knives, but difficult to maintain. I may be mistaken though. I imagine it could be good up to a point on a razor but eventually you are gonna end up with a completely rounded edge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncraigtrn
Give that man a cigar :) that is the right answer..
The tough part is figuring the Convexity of the edge, it isn't quite as easy as one is lead to believe by simply reading posts on Shave Forums..
Hint: Research the term "Micro-Bevel" it will let you achieve a Convex bevel much faster, easier, and more accurately then simply trying to "paste" one on there..
You might also do some research into some of the really nice DE blades to find that some also play with Micro-beveling to achieve a Convex shape..
All this stuff is hidden away here in the deep dark recesses of SRP :p
But don't just read about the experiments that some of us did back then, try your own
Correct me if I'm wrong. Let's say I have a razor I hone with one layer of tape. At my finisher I do my thing and then add an additional layer and do 10-12 laps. Would that not add a very slight micro bevel that would then create an ideal convexivity once stropped?Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncraigtrn
Not going say :)
I will tell you that testing for a convex edge isn't so easy :)
Requires:::: Well lit clear Magnification, a Marker, and a dead flat high grit hone with NO slurry :D oh yes one other thing a well trained hand pushing the razor down the hone :rofl2:
The slightest deviation can screw up your carefully laid plans, trust me on this LOL
Cmon I'm not asking the golden ticket. Just that I'm headed the right direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
You are headed in the right direction hehehe
Just warning ya it isn't quite as easy as many think,,
IIRC it is Feather that does a stepped triple Micro-Bevel on some of their blades :thinking: that might be even easier :D
Well I am not as proficient at honing as you nor the gear to work with but... I have determination and an ern I'm refurbing that may just see a intentionally convexed edge.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Hmmm
I just remembered this thread when showing this grind in another thread
http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...al-scales.html
Post # 19 Oz links this patent
Patent US693524 - Razor. - Google Patents
Read George Korn's description of his objective for the grind :hmmm sounds like this thread huh???
Look up the unicot method on coticule.be.Quote:
Originally Posted by ncraigtrn
I'll say that IME I've had very good results using this method. I'm a believer.
I think that kind of edge is horrible cause it's seems to make the cutting edge get cogged with what everQuote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
you are cutting into much faster. Flat ground edges are the way to always go. Unless you want a stronger edge for chopping in
the side of a tree with a axe then it's good.