Since this thread has been resuscitated, has anyone actually seen Tarkus and Sharptonn at the same time in the same place?Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
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Since this thread has been resuscitated, has anyone actually seen Tarkus and Sharptonn at the same time in the same place?Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
I had the same thoughts with the 30K (even though I sold mine a while back), MJC beat me to it. Thanks Tim for the pics, my honing mentor recommended magnification & it helps my pea brain to compute all that is going on with the steel.
A viable alternative is lapping film. It is very well graded, and consistent. I use it for polishing metallurgical samples, and honing research.[/QUOTE] from Tim.
Tim, I use PSA lapping film on glass. The glass is dead flat and the tapes can be replaced when you think they need it. I posted my progression on another thread. 15 microns down to 0.3 micron. Then 0.1 micron iron-ox on balsa. It works for me. I don't recommend it or suggest it does a better job than another method. I'm also a tape fan for the final polish stropping on high grade gloss (after leather stropping)
Late to the party, but here's a thought that goes back to the original post: maybe the razor could have gone farther at some level in the early/mid stage.
I say this because, as is clear, increasing the angle will get the edge onto the stone, and getting the edge onto the stone is exactly the reason that a bevel is fully set and each stone is "fully used" before moving on to the next. And I have found, as I'm sure many others have, that increasing the bevel angle on a razor that isn't quite there will allow you to "cheat" your way to a fully honed edge. (Personally, I always need more than 20 on the 8k, and while I don't know the details of the steel in that blade, my experience is that harder steels usually need more strokes, and I think 62 is on the hard side, right?)
I don't mean the word cheat with any negative connotations, but it is, in my opinion, just a shortcut. Because now that razor must be touched up at that higher angle, or else it will have to go back down to whatever level is appropriate to get the edge there without the increase in angle.
Now, I'm not really sure why anyone cares whether it's called a second bevel or a micro bevel or what have you, but I can say that, personally, if I am going to increase the honing angle, I would rather have a bevel, be it primary (with tape the whole way) or secondary (add tape at a later stage), that I can see. But this is because, as many have mentioned, seeing your edges can be a nice tool.
Or, if you prefer a short version, I don't see this any differently than the to tape or not to tape discussion for general honing, because, really, it's the same thing but at a different stage.
The Loupe. Yeah, all true. Esp if you are old and half-blind like me! ;)
Tarkus is avoiding me...or is it Neil?? :rofl2:
Jeez - at last: somebody who talks sense!Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
And before Tim jumps in - its only razors...
(or, as Sweeney Todd would have it - it's only razors,... and pies).
Regards,
Neil
Tarkus eats pies with a spoon! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
Remind me to never eat at Neil's house.:dropjaw:Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
No Neil we weren't separated at birth however we are considering the oll Rosie Greer operation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
Two heads are better you know.
Attachment 173664
Working on it big guy. Har!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by WW243
Mmmmmmmm Pie!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
Surely not, Tarkus is too smart for that!Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
Pies?
Spoons?
Attachment 173665
I bring you the Tarkus Pie-baked-on-a-spoon Spoon!
Take 2 bottles into the shower...?
Regards,
Neil
Guests don't get to dine, my dear Razorfeld...Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorfeld
I've changed my mind. If that's what Neil is serving, I'm there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
Lovely! I'll get the pie moulds out! How much do you weigh, my friend...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorfeld
This going somewhere between a silly Munsters episode and a B horror movie. Can't have more fun than that most days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
See if Razorfeld will slip into this mold NeilQuote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
Attachment 173666
Just has to exhale a bit
Tarkus, couldn't you find a mould with a less of a supercilious smirk on it?
Neil is serving Richard at tea! HAR!
Attachment 173667
Got everything right except the nose.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
I thought I captured you fine that's your inner smirk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorfeld
:rofl2:
We must have met somewhere, lived in PA for 18 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkus
Now I remember why I rarely post on the forums... :D
Sooory Tim! It's not you, It's the "T"-word! :D
Tastycake is located in Philly....man they make a lot of pies, no need for a spoon though, little things you eat out of hand....oh you mean the other T.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
And as for you William.Quote:
Originally Posted by WW243
Careful or were all gonna chow down on some of your monkey brains.
Attachment 173682
Har!!!
Can I assume that this wonderful razor is staying in the "Family" as in the SRP Family as in our favorite Norwegian?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Zowada
Yes, I agree, some topics and ideas are best left unsaid. Kind of reminds me of Black Adder II where Edmund hires a mad old seacaptain to cross uncharted waters:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Zowada
Edmund: Look, there’s no need to panic. Someone in the crew will
know how to steer this thing.
Rum: The crew, milord?
Edmund: Yes, the crew.
Rum: What crew?
Edmund: I was under the impression that it was common maritime practice
for a ship to have a crew.
Rum: Opinion is divided on the subject.
Edmund: Oh, really? [starting to get the picture]
Rum: Yahs. All the other captains say it is; I say it isn’t.
Edmund: Oh, God; Mad as a brush.
Opinion, you might say, is divided... :)
Regards,
Neil (...remember, it's only pies...) Miller
Well, I don't know about the favorite part, but the recipient of this beauty would be little ol' me;)Quote:
Originally Posted by MJC
Should be here any day now!
Honed up a razor I just finished restoring. I used a 1k king stone, 5u, 3u, then 1u lapping film on glass. Shaved like a dream. Came back to the 1u with tape and did 3 laps with just the weight of the blade. Microscope shows no secondary or micro bevel and I must say, it does shave smoother. Not incredibly so, but definitely a noticeable difference. Enough that it will be another tool in the box when I feel like it. Thank you for the information Tim!
As I suspected - and congratulations!Quote:
Originally Posted by Birnando
Smooth Shaving !
Yeah. You are pretty much our favorite, being a moderator and such. :rofl2: Besides being a great Norwegian! Pictures???????? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Birnando
Here’s an idea, try it… if it works for you, great…
If it doesn’t, don’t do it.
The Tape, not the Pie… Oh hell, try the pie too.
Never met a pie I spit out.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Fin,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,
Attachment 173834
I'm very curious about the metallurgy (or whatever you call it) involved here...
Steel isn't entirely plastic - at some level abrading it causes it to chip away and the particles (carbides?) can only go down to so small of a size... If the smallest steel bit that can break off is smaller than the microbevel then it makes sense (in my head) that if one were delicate enough in knocking those overhanging particles off the edge, it would be possible to refine an edge beyond what flat honing accomplishes.
On the other hand, there are effects from stropping and the steel partocles may be much smaller than we're talking about here...
Obviously I don't know a lot about this, but I'm curious about what happens at the micro level.
Essentially we are talking about particles that go beyond visibility under conventional microscopes. Theoretically you can abrade steel down at the molecular level with the appropriate application of energy, or in this case resistance. Once you get down to the atomic level it would be a matter of overcoming the bonds of the compound chains by using something as big or smaller with appropriate force. Hence the micron measurements in pastes and media. The smaller you get in abrasive force, the smaller the compounded matter you can remove. You could remove metal toward the apex, theoretically, infinitely if you were able to remove metal down to the sub atomic level. This would require a particle accelerator, but I think you run the risk of over honing....Quote:
Originally Posted by HNSB
:deadhorse:
Seriously though, at a point there is just overkill. I think Tim's whole point here was that he is showing proof of what he does in his honing process and that there is a limit to what the apex of an edge is capable of handing before it starts to effect the bevel itself, which as I recall, is what he tries to avoid. There are limitations to how flat you can get. Eventually the honing surface and the apex would reach a limit to how much their relationship can narrow. Tim's method seems to gently adjust for that margin and squeak a little more effort at the apex before deteriorating it.
I've been scratching my head about this thread, maybe I have taken the context wrong. I have enough experience honing to converse with anyone as I have tried quite a bit of stones, methods, and so on. It all comes down to "does it shave well" doesn't it? I've played around with micro-bevels myself & at first I liked them...until it came to touching up the blade & then you have to ask yourself if you did a micro-bevel or not. I have several razors in my rotation, so I can't remember which I honed which way...this is why I don't bother with them unless I come across a very chippy razor.
Now, lets move forward to this thread. A man who is well known for his blades and from what I have heard & read even knows how to hone a bit, brings up something that HE is doing and shares it with supportive documentation. A good word for his method is a "nano-bevel". His method, on a microscopic level, strongly resembles the strongest cutting edge ever...the samurai sword in my mind. I can easily see, with my experience, that this method WILL WORK. There is nobody on this forum that prove otherwise as I am sure we will hear a shave report from Birnando & I bet it will be positive...and he's no rookie at shaving either.
What I am getting at is that I hone using a method that I believe is best, Lynn, Kelly, Glenn, and Joe Schmuckatelly all hone differently...but the end it's all the same: Does it shave comfortable and well? If it does, WHO CARES how the razor got there as the method obviously works. Try different methods once and a while, all it will do is improve your knowledge base...don't get stuck in a rut.
No, I don't use tape on my own razors, no I don't use micro or nano bevels, and Pecan Pie is THE best pie made...if you don't agree, go lick a toad...with ice cream of coarse.
Seems to me that that's all there is to it, for me anyways;)Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter74743
I will report back after I have given it a few shaves.
I started reading this thread to learn another approach to honing, now I am just hungry for some pie without the tape!! You guy are hilarious!! Made my day!! :roflmao
,,,,,,,,,,,Attachment 173887Quote:
Originally Posted by Sic4531
Wow! Finally a real picture of Hirlau!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirlau
Streaking was popular in the late 70"s. :shrug:
