Honing a Filarmonica

Folks, I am really stuck. I have two Filarmonica Doble Temple 7/8 razors that I got a while back from CS. To this date I can't remember if I ever got them shave ready. I have attempted every way I know or every way I have read about to get them ready but just can't get there.

Before I send them off to Lynn, has anyone else had difficulty in getting these razors sharp enough to not pluck every hair out individually. If so I would like to know how. I am at the point of reworking the bevel and start from there, but don't know if that will work.

I have all the equipment (Norton 4/8 and yellow connicle, pasted strops and leather)

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thinking:

I've been having the same issue, but I believe I've been making progress by treating the blade as very hard steel, perhaps stainless steel and giving it more gentle work on the 8k than usual. I'm not there with mine yet either, but I've gotten closer.

X

X, do you also have the 7/8 from CS?

I remember a while back reading about yet another SRP member having a hard time with one of these.

I have about a half-dozen of the vintage 14s (8/8). I love them. Two of them have been honed by Chandler and the others by me. One of the reasons I like them so much is because I've found them easy to hone – and I'll freely admit that I'm a pretty mediocre honer. The ones honed by Joe just seem to keep their edge indefinitely. In that respect they're a world apart from my other razors (a TI wedge, a Wacker 1/4 hollow, a W/B 1/4 hollow) – which need refreshes every 5 shaves or so (I have a very wiry beard).

So this is pretty puzzling to me. I wonder if there's a difference between the vintage Fillies and the newer ones sold by CS.

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Originally Posted by dylandog

X, do you also have the 7/8 from CS?
So this is pretty puzzling to me. I wonder if there's a difference between the vintage Fillies and the newer ones sold by CS.

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I don't know. The 7/8's are the only ones I own from that line. The edge is bowed toward the middle and though it sometimes feels great on my thumb, clips some hairs on my arm. When I go to shave with it misses half of what it goes over. Most of my other razors work fine--some I hone and some others honed for me. I have tried 45 degree honing, X pattern, pressure, no pressure, straight down and straight back, norton, connicle, japanese water stone, pastes 06, 05, 1. Shucks, I have thrown the kitchen sink at these razors and still get a minimal cut.

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Originally Posted by xman

I've been having the same issue, but I believe I've been making progress by treating the blade as very hard steel, perhaps stainless steel and giving it more gentle work on the 8k than usual. I'm not there with mine yet either, but I've gotten closer.

X

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You mention gentle work on the 8k. That is a new concept. My logic would say that a harder steel would need a bit more pressure than something that might be less hard. Am I wrong? If so maybe that is what I am doing wrong. I might be using too much pressure.

Too much pressure, especially with hard steel will cause micro-chipping.

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Originally Posted by jmsbcknr

You mention gentle work on the 8k. That is a new concept. My logic would say that a harder steel would need a bit more pressure than something that might be less hard. Am I wrong? If so maybe that is what I am doing wrong. I might be using too much pressure.

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You may have gotten the pressure idea from the Friodur honing discussions.

I don't have a filly, but hard steel can be kind of counterintuitive - it's slower going so you need to use pressure to make progress, but steel that hard is more brittle so the pressure is more likely to microchip the edge.

One of the nice things about the Friodurs is they get the high hardness levels without the brittleness, so you can use pressure on them without too much risk of microchipping. I've found Friodurs to be pretty easy to hone; the razors that give me fits are the really hard carbon steel razors, and for those it can take awhile to get them dialed in that first time. Lots of light laps, and frequent checks under the microscope to see how it's coming. A lot of times I'll switch to either a translucent arkansas or a tam o shanter hone as it starts getting close. Sometimes that's enough, but sometimes I'll go to the 15k shapton for the final polishing.

I figured I was up against hard metal, so I took mine to the 4k aggressively. I put a small chip in my 7/8 that was a pain in the butt to get past. I decided I didn't wanna mess with 4k on that blade.
I ended up going from 8k to a barber hone once I got the chip out (mostly) and it took a while to get the thing near shave-ready.
My version of shave ready would probably qualify as unacceptable, at that.

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Originally Posted by dylandog

X, do you also have the 7/8 from CS?

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That's the one.

I go lightly because I don't want to smooth out the striations and overhone it. Like I say. I haven't quite gotten it yet, but the extra work on the 8k seems to have helped.

X

If u have tried many times and still no luck then I would go back to the 4K and rework the bevel very carefully. That has been a problem for me in the past also and by assuming that the bevel is "off" and reworking it then that has almost always worked.

To me the establishment of the bevel is the single most important step of honing.

Just my two cents,:)

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

If u have tried many times and still no luck then I would go back to the 4K and rework the bevel very carefully. That has been a problem for me in the past also and by assuming that the bevel is "off" and reworking it then that has almost always worked.

To me the establishment of the bevel is the single most important step of honing.

Just my two cents,:)

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The discussion is very helpful. I will start from the beginning and hopefully get there. I don't like it when the struggle beats me.:tu

I had the same problem with my new 7/8 Fil but not with my old Filies. I found the same as randy that getting the bevel set correctly helped in the end. I did this on my 4k Norton but with circular motion @ 45 degrees to the hone. Then went to my 8k Norton when I detected and edge starting. On the 8k I did the same circular honing but when the edge started to show sweet on the nail I turned to light 45 degree X pattern, checking every 5 laps. After every 5 laps I back honed for 1 then till I got a cleen HHT. I then finished on my old hone of uknown type with 2 laps then a back hone of 1 for 4 reps finishing with 5 very light laps as normal.
Every other way I tried failed and this was how I eventually got there. I must say I think it will hold and edge for a long time from the strop because it has done over 10 shaves now and still gets better.

PuFF

I had one of the CS 7/8 Fils honed by Lynn, and have enjoyed it. I couldn;t get is sharp enough, and Lynn was the last straw before it went up for sale.

I belive Lynn said that these are stainless steel, and that is the reason that they are a little difficult to hone for some.

Boy, am I glad I only have a NOS vintage 14... This thing is one of my very very best shavers and came almost shave ready... I think I only did some laps Lithide on it :eek:

Seems quite involved to get the CS one going...

Cheers
Ivo

I had the same problem with my Filarmonica Doble Temple. Finally got some advice to start with a taped spine, on 1000 grit sandpaper and then go from there. It made all of the difference...it's now one of my best shavers. The hones I used are old unknown barber hones (and I know that doesn't help any) but I hope the sandpaper part does.

-Pary

Sounds like the problem's a combination of two things in the new Fillies : very hard steel and a factory bevel that's more off than usual.

Please excuse if I start all over again with my "old rules" of unknown origin.

The old rule:
"The harder the steel, the softer the rock (grindstone could be the better word?)"


One of "our german experts" in sharpening straight razors always recommends the Thueringer Water Grindstones (I think they are only available from Müller´s MST Works by now) for stainless-steel and other very hard steels like the Filarmonicas have.
I wouldn´t specially call this one a very soft grindstone but it definetly sharpens Friodurs like no ohter grindstone I have tested yet.
There is hardly any pressure needed while grinding the blade on it and as far as I have used one there is no big problem with the micro-chipping on stainless-steel blades.

But, that might be the problem, I guess those Thueringer MST-Grindstones are not very common in the US?

Has anyone of you ever tried one of those on yet?

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Originally Posted by Scarface Germany

Please excuse if I start all over again with my "old rules" of unknown origin.

The old rule:
"The harder the steel, the softer the rock (grindstone could be the better word?)"


One of "our german experts" in sharpening straight razors always recommends the Thueringer Water Grindstones (I think they are only available from Müller´s MST Works by now) for stainless-steel and other very hard steels like the Filarmonicas have.
I wouldn´t specially call this one a very soft grindstone but it definetly sharpens Friodurs like no ohter grindstone I have tested yet.
There is hardly any pressure needed while grinding the blade on it and as far as I have used one there is no big problem with the micro-chipping on stainless-steel blades.

But, that might be the problem, I guess those Thueringer MST-Grindstones are not very common in the US?

Has anyone of you ever tried one of those on yet?

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I have a Hunsrueck/Eifel that I got from Tony Miller at thewellshavedgentleman.com. I think Tony is or was investigating the Thuringens- not sure where that went. I'll let him comment.

The Hunsrueck has been a great finishing stone for me (chromium what?";" ) and worked very well with my stubborn Filly.


Jordan

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Originally Posted by jnich67

I have a Hunsrueck/Eifel that I got from Tony Miller at thewellshavedgentleman.com. I think Tony is or was investigating the Thuringens- not sure where that went. I'll let him comment.

The Hunsrueck has been a great finishing stone for me (chromium what?";" ) and worked very well with my stubborn Filly.


Jordan

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Jordan,

it probably worked well simply because it's a faster cutter (I hear, haven't tried). It is harder than Thuringens and Eschers, according to Tony, and cuts faster.

Keep an open mind about chromium (Lynn said "wowza" about it, even if you choose to disregard others' praises - this should be enough of an incentive to try, it's cheap anyway)

Cheers
Ivo

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Originally Posted by izlat

Jordan,

Keep an open mind about chromium (Lynn said "wowza" about it, even if you choose to disregard others' praises - this should be enough of an incentive to try, it's cheap anyway)

Cheers
Ivo

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I agree Ivo. I made that statement tongue-in-cheek based on all the hoopla. I still use my green paste regularly- just not as much. :D

Jordan

Hmm, I can´t follow this slang-talk? :o
statement tongue-in-cheek based on all the hoopla?
hoopla??? tongue-in-cheek???

My dictionary is not the right source to look this up! :confused:

"tongue-in-cheek" means jokingly but with a serious expression. The expression is a fairly old one, and was due to a technique for suppressing a smile.

"hoopla" means misleading talk or propaganda, or boisterous praise. I suspect this term originally referred to the old practice of planting loud supporters into the crowd to help drum up excitement.

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Originally Posted by Scarface Germany

Hmm, I can´t follow this slang-talk? :o
statement tongue-in-cheek based on all the hoopla?
hoopla??? tongue-in-cheek???

My dictionary is not the right source to look this up! :confused:

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to say something tongue-in-cheek means to say things half-truthfully in a kind of mocking humorous way


hoopla --- is kind of overdone excitement -- it can imply a negative connotation.


Justin

Just jam a razor into this and shave.

http://www.chefscatalog.com/catalog/...spx?item=14345

Spend the time you've saved honing to help someone in need.

Thanx for the explanations guys!
I guess I am not ready for ironics yet.

Hope the tongue-in-cheeks were not because of my hoopla(?) boisterous praise on german grindstones? There is no attempt to promote anything behind it!

If I could compare with the stones I have read about on this board I would name them, but I can´t.

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Originally Posted by Scarface Germany

Thanx for the explanations guys!
I guess I am not ready for ironics yet.

Hope the tongue-in-cheeks were not because of my hoopla(?) boisterous praise on german grindstones? There is no attempt to promote anything behind it!

If I could compare with the stones I have read about on this board I would name them, but I can´t.

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Not at all Scarface. Over the past months here there has been a lot of enthusiastic praise for the chromium oxide paste (this is the "hoopla"). I was making the sarcastic joke of "who needs chromium oxide...?" because I've been so happy with my Hunsrueck stone. Seriously, I like them both very much.

Ok, continue with the discussion :)


Jordan

Feels like coming home!

The chromium oxide paste disussion has been all over the german board for the last few month, too.

It is recommended for finishing almost any straight razor sharpening technique one could think of!

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Originally Posted by Friggin Joe

Just jam a razor into this and shave.

http://www.chefscatalog.com/catalog/...spx?item=14345

Spend the time you've saved honing to help someone in need.

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That magnetic bar knife-holder is awesome!

I'm seeing microchipping on my 15/16. It appears that there is/are grain lines that lead in to these areas. Is this accurate and if so is this a defect in the steel?

Speaking of steel, this might be a job for SuperLynn, LOL.

J.

I'd steered clear of taking my filly to the Honemaster barber hone until today, thinking it wasn't ready for it, it might not respond well to that stone and I'm only just getting edges from it and not even onto that edge ...
Today it shaved, after many months of being close, but pulling and not cutting easily or closely. 4 strokes on the lathered Honemaster and it's not quite BBS, but it's an actually good shaving edge. I'm going to do 3 more tomorrow to see what changes.

X

I have just recieved my 7/8 from cs and i had to send it back because the pins were no where tight enough. I have just got it back and it is alittle better but not much. The razor was presharpend and i have to say shaves good i give it 10 out of 10 to be honest. But i have heard honmeisters say the factory bevel has had to be reset as the bevel was way off the cutting angle god no's how they can tell. any one no how i'd be interested to no.

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Originally Posted by dylandog

X, do you also have the 7/8 from CS?

I remember a while back reading about yet another SRP member having a hard time with one of these.

I have about a half-dozen of the vintage 14s (8/8). I love them. Two of them have been honed by Chandler and the others by me. One of the reasons I like them so much is because I've found them easy to hone – and I'll freely admit that I'm a pretty mediocre honer. The ones honed by Joe just seem to keep their edge indefinitely. In that respect they're a world apart from my other razors (a TI wedge, a Wacker 1/4 hollow, a W/B 1/4 hollow) – which need refreshes every 5 shaves or so (I have a very wiry beard).

So this is pretty puzzling to me. I wonder if there's a difference between the vintage Fillies and the newer ones sold by CS.

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I, too, have a vintage 14 and it is the easiest of my hurd to hone. I mean it is heaven honing this baby, and yes, it stays sharp and never needs a tune up. I can't say enough about this beautiful performer!

This tells me they are a world apart from the new ones! I feel very lucky to have gotten mine at such a great price on Ebay. :D

i think i more or less conquered my filly from CS. I ended up redoing bevel on low grit sandpaper and think I even took a few swipes on my DMT 325. Then fininsed blue coticule, yellow coticule and green yellow escher. to deal with smile, never quite mastered rolling x but used professional stroke method (short separate honing on both ends). It's a cool razor.

I just received one of the last #13 Doble Temple Filly's from CS. As a rule I don't restore razors and have little use for very aggressive coarse hones. I have a Shapton 3K glass hone that I usually use to set a bevel on a new razor.

The factory bevel on the new Filly was practically non-existent. I don't know what kind of steel is used-but it is HARD-I mean VERY *&^&*#@ HARD:eek:,. I have never had an issue establishing a bevel on the 3K Shapton until I got this hunk of metal. There is a VERY slight warping present and a hint of a "smile" on the edge. Nothing that should pose a problem-ONCE the bevel is established.

Learn something everyday I guess:hmmm:-I'm going to have to take it to a much coarser stone. On the bright side though-once its sharp, it should stay sharp. A work in progress....

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Originally Posted by Lt.Arclight

There is a VERY slight warping present and a hint of a "smile" on the edge. Nothing that should pose a problem-ONCE the bevel is established.

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A hint of a smile?????
:roflmao

SUCCESS! I took a while, but it was worth the EFFORT! BY far the most difficult razor I have ever honed. The shave test this morning was very satisfying. Now I HAVE A HINT OF A SMILE.:D

I had trouble honing my Filly too. But once it's in the zone - fuggedaboudit. Sweet shaver. :)


Jordan