Dud DOVO Bismarck super?

I received a very stubborn DOVO Bismarck super last Friday for honing. At first, I figured the fault was with me, or the bevel, but I tried all the tricks I know and it still doesn't get even close to shave-ready. I would estimate it at 4000 grit sharpness, tops. When I tried shaving, I had difficulty getting through stubble when using heavy scything/slicing passes, and it would just get stuck without.

I tried:
- Normal honing 1/4/8/16K Shaptons
- Microbevel
- 1 to 4(!) layers of tape
- Microbevel with 4 layers of tape starting at 8K, regular bevel without tape
- Red and black pastes
- One-stone-honing on 8K Shapton
- Harsh bevel reset: ground the edge down ~0,5mm on DMT325 and started bevel reset from there.
- Rolling x-strokes, very wide x-strokes

At some point I noticed a very small chip in the edge, which disappeared with just the use of the 8K and one-stone-honing, starting out with medium pressure.


My guess: it's a dud. Bad tempering in factory or overheated at some point. The owner says he hasn't overheated it, as far as he knows, and only tried shaving with it a few times and then gave up because it was dull. It had never been honed, just factory edge before I received it.

Has anyone had this sort of experience with a DOVO before? Is there something I missed?

This is her. I find few similar razors when looking for DOVO Bismarck Super. Also, the scales are very cheap, without an actual wedge. Opens and closes well, though.

Attachment 179570

I have honed a few dovo razors that have been problematic. New out of the box, I have seen slight frowns with the bevel as well as geometry issues which make honing even more difficult.

I would guess you have the latter. When this occurs, I make a greater effort to cant the razor on the stone. You can also try a rolling x stroke.

Hope this helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badgister

I have honed a few dovo razors that have been problematic. New out of the box, I have seen slight frowns with the bevel as well as geometry issues which make honing even more difficult.

I would guess you have the latter. When this occurs, I make a greater effort to cant the razor on the stone. You can also try a rolling x stroke.

Hope this helps.

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Thanks, I tried rolling x-strokes, I'll add it to the list. The contact with the hone was indeed not even over the length of the razor, but with rolling strokes and very wide strokes and layers of tape I could overcome that and get a uniform bevel. Under magnification, it looks very good, but it's just not sharp!

Are you able to shave arm hair off the 1k? If not, then no matter how good your bevel looks under magnification, the two sides of the bevel are not meeting.

Yep, the bevel looks and feels good (TPT) and shaves arm hair well. I reset the bevel one or two times, just to be sure, and got the same result.

Then indeed, it could be the tempering.

Thanks, I'll see if the owner still has some sort of warranty, even though he ordered it around 4 years ago.

I'm curious if anyone else has ever had a similar problem.

I've got a few Bismarcks Including a slightly earlier version of that one.

It's a Super Bismarck 6/8, Stamped Bismarck not Dovo. It is of dovo production.

It's a number 11, 3 pin scales, Same grind as that one (micro shoulder).

Honed on 1 layer of tape (it has no spine wear).

1K king, 5, 8, 12K naniwa super stones, Light green thuringian finish.

Shaves like a champ.

All of my other Bismarcks are good as well.

5/8, 6/8, 7/8 (extra hollow) Muller models.
6/8 dovo ebony
6/8 Number 11 Bismarck Dovo.

None have any edge retention or honing problems. And are pretty easy to get shaving.

It could very well be you have a dud. I would suggest testing to see if it rings out, But the super I have is dead in terms of ringing.

The scales on the supers are nasty, The early Muller models with the brass inlay are a better quality scale. The super is Dovo's first attempts to use the Bismarck trademark, And as such it's a mid 60's early 70's cheap affair. These models do not reflect the quality of the earlier Muller models.

Thanks! I have 6 DOVOs in the mail today for honing, if those hone up without problems, I will go with the dud-dovo-theory.

I tried getting a ring with my finger nail (that's what you meant, right?) and it's dead like yours. I compared it to an extra hollow razor I messed up some time ago and that rings loudly.

I have one brand new Dovo that is unhonable due to grinding geometry. I could spend hours trying to get it right but it's just not worth the time. There is one section of the bevel on one side that just doesn't hit the hone - no matter what stroke I use. - the other side has a perfect even bevel - go figure.

-john

I've had two bismarks - one old one that's not marked dovo (but is similar to the current shoulderless style) and one new one that I bought a couple of years ago. The old one is straight, and the newer one was not straight, which made it a but more of a pain to hone. Both took a good edge, though.

I have had two razors, though, that refused to take a good edge. One was a sheffield W&B razor, and the other was a japanese razor with nice spine work. The second of those two is sitting in my trash can. I tried everything I could to save it, even bringing it to straw temper hoping that it was just overhard, and it refused before that to take a good edge and it gets an edge very similar afterward.

The straightness issue is one of the reasons, I believe, that the well known cutlers razors bring money. The vintage razors that are precisely ground and a bit dressy from a known maker have been straighter in my experience than razors that don't have the same pedigree. I'm sure it's not a 100% bet, but in my experience, it puts the odds in your favor a little more. A cutler straightens those razors by eye (and using a hammer) as part of the grinding process, it's a skill that takes time and effort to learn and apply, I'm sure.

Straightness certainly seems an issue with DOVO, bith this unhoneable one and six new Prima Silver Steels that arrived last Thursday for honing. All these seven razors have the same thing: the heel is slightly thicker ground on the front side of the blade and a tiny frown sitting next to it that doesn't touch the hone as well as the rest. The difference though, is that the six new ones do take an edge (and a good one at that!) and the first three are shave-tested and back in their boxes, whereas that Bismack Super did not even get close to that sharpness.

I catch your drift now. I haven't had a similar problem with a dovo, but I have had a razor before that refused to take a good edge and without necessarily showing why on a digital microscope. After wasting about 5 hours trying various things and shaving with it two dozen times, I retempered it to straw temper (but I don't know what the steel was, and thus have no clue if that even did anything as a temper temperature) and it was still no good, so I threw it away. It was a large japanese razor with spinework, so much for that...