Norton 4K/8K

I finally got a chance to use my Norton 4K/8K that I bought back in early August. I had been using a Bester 1200 to set the bevel and then J nats (Aoto, Yaginoshima Asagi and Ozuka Asagi) and then stropping on 1/2 and 1/4 micron CBN pastes on Balsa wood strops. Never really got a comfortable shave with any of the blades I had honed. So I picked up the Norton, made sure it was flat and went to town on a few blades. Did much better than I thought with the 4K/8K combo, edge was bright after the 8K and then went to the Ozuka Asagi and Illinois 827 strop for a clean, smooth looking edge under 30X magnification. Got a pretty decent shave, used one of my heavier smiling SR's to shave 7 days worth of coarse growth and 1 pass knocked it down very well with some light stubble, first SR attempt in a few months. I tried to do a Xtg pass, but got a nice cut from it because I was very tired and shaky (out in the AM to go hunting after 4 hrs sleep, shaved that evening). Gonna go back and try re honing all of my SR's now. I think my J Nats weren't fully flat. Many are fairly hard and take forever to truly flatten out, even using diamond plate 140 grit and other methods. Now I have 11 more razors to hone!

Knowing the stone was flat seemed to help me keep a better view on the edge bevel and what I was doing. My J nats are pretty flat, but not as flat as the Norton and the Norton was a bit easier to flatten. I use the J Nats on my kitchen cutlery and that doesn't need a perfectly flat stone; I though by using the X strokes it may compensate for some slight unevenness, but I learned it didn't work that way!

I am awaiting Glens take on this

Added Naniwa Super Stone 1K and 12K to the mix with the 2 Nortons so I have a full set up for my razors and a different set of stones for the kitchen knives. The Naniwa 12K is sweet! Also got a horsehide leather strop and a Roo leather strop to go on a magnetic strop base. Surprised at how much draw the Roo has! It looks like it is untreated, too.

I think you might be putting too much fault in the lack of flatness in your japanese hone. Have you tried shaving off of the 8k? If you cannot get a decent shave there then the higher hones won't fix that. The higher hones will refine an edge but it has to already be a shaving edge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utopian

I think you might be putting too much fault in the lack of flatness in your japanese hone. Have you tried shaving off of the 8k? If you cannot get a decent shave there then the higher hones won't fix that. The higher hones will refine an edge but it has to already be a shaving edge.

---

I couldn't have said it better! Thank you! :bow:

The edges I get off the 8K can sometimes tree top arm hair and as I go up, they tree top the arm hair better and better. I can shave arm hair starting much lower grit wise with contact with the skin. With the J Nats, I was having trouble getting the bevel set and polished as I worked my way up the stones. It was difficult to get the edge bevel cleaned up at the very edge with the J Nats and hit all the way to the very edge evenly. With the new stones that are flatter, I can get the actual edge much more refined than I was before. I still use my Ozuka Asagi for the final stone occasionally, but with the new synthetic stones, the quality/evenness of the bevel is much cleaner. The 1K Naniwa SuperStone feels smoother than the 4K Norton, the 8K Norton isn't too bad feel wise.

If your bevels are set properly ( <<< a must) then you should just go thru the 4/8k with all your blades and try them out. If you can't get bbs off the 8k Norton then anything you do after that is like polishing a dog turd :<0)

The next time Glen posts what I'm going to attempt to 'Quote' I'm going to copy and paste it and save it so I can actually provide a direct quote. With that said I like what Glen says when he posts something close to this;

Synthetics are Science, Naturals are Romance.

This is what you are finding out with the Norton 4/8. I've posted time and time again that if I were to drop my Naniwa 12k I could live off of my Norton 8k edge for the rest of my life. However If I were to drop and break my 4/8 I'd eat peanut butter sandwiches day in and day out until I could afford a new one. :tu

As has been mentioned if the bevel isn't set then all other work is for naught. Keep working on getting a good bevel set then work on getting a Clean, Close and Comfortable Shave off of the 8k then play to your hearts content on the others.

Have fun!

Yeah, the Synthetics are much easier for me to keep an eye on the bevel set at the 1K stage and as I go up, make sure I am still hitting the actual edge with each stone and the bevel remains "set". With the uneven J Nats, the bevel wasn't staying "set" as I worked my way up the stones. The Norton 4/8 showed me that and the 8K showed me what a nice polished edge looks like! The Naniwa 1K Super Stone seems to have a little different feel from my Bester 1200 that I used the last time to set the edge and with the eye loupe, I was able to see a little better when the bevel was actually set. The Bester 1200 set the bevel fine, but the Naniwa feels a bit better with the razors; it has a creamier feel to it. Way smoother feeling than the Norton 4K actually!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by taz575

The Naniwa 1K Super Stone seems to have a little different feel from my Bester 1200 that I used the last time to set the edge and with the eye loupe, I was able to see a little better when the bevel was actually set. The Bester 1200 set the bevel fine, but the Naniwa feels a bit better with the razors; it has a creamier feel to it. Way smoother feeling than the Norton 4K actually!

---

That is the enticement of trying different hones. Many will get the job done but they will do it in different ways.

I have a large tool box, 2 cardboard boxes, plus a water tub/soaking bin and another stack of stones on the counter :) I decided to go with a set just for the straight razors and use the others for the various knives I got them for (many are J nats with specific tasks in mind!). I will eventually replace the Norton 4K with something else, the 8K is good enough for me now and the 12K SuperStone really makes the bevel a bit cleaner! When I am done with the 12K, it is VERY obvious if the bevel isn't set fully :) I also have 1 micron Boron Carbide paste on Balsa, .5 Crox, .5 and .25 CBN spray on Balsa, Illinois 127 Cowhide and a horsehide and roo strop for a magnetic stropping base that also fits all of the balsa strops.

The Bester and the Super Stone 1k should both set a bevel just fine. If you are able to cut hair at higher grits, you should can cut hair off the 1k’s.

Most probably your bevel is not set off the 1k and it is hit or miss if it will come together with higher grit stones. Do not move up off the 1k until you are absolutely positive the bevel is COMPLETELY set from heel to toe. Learn to determine if the bevel is set by looking straight down at it with magnification.

Forget the Jnats for now and use the synthetic progression only, you have a nice set, all you will ever need really, once you have master that, then experiment with Jnats. Chances are your Jnats are not even 8k and you’re just going backwards.

You can lap them flat with 80 grit Wet & Dry and work up to 400. Really a 12 super stone edge is very hard to beat.

Yeah, the Bester set the bevel well, but with the J Nats, some weren't fully flat, so the actual edge area wasn't always getting cleaned up by the next stone. I went Bester 1200, Hard San Aoto (around 3-5K), then to a Yaginoshima Asagi, then tried a Takashima, Nakayama (2 different ones), and Ozuka Asagi. I also have 2 Narutaki, Meara, San Shobu, 2 Hakka stones (lower grit) and some others I forgot about but didn't try. The Ozuka Asagi gave the best edge of the J Nats, but the all J Nat route didn't work edge wise because some stones weren't flat enough and didn't refine the edge at that grit. The San Aoto was a bit out of flat, so when I went to the flatter higher grit stones, there were parts of the edge that were still at a lower grit
afterwards.

Yeah, I am sticking to the synthetics now so I have a better base line and make sure the bevel is set, then after the 12K, I can use the J Nats to see what type of edge they leave and what I prefer. Baseline with synthetics, and then I can try the edge off the 12K, then off a J nat, etc and be able to compare the edges on the same razor and change up the stone/strops to see what works. This time around, I didn't even touch the J Nats, did the 12K, then some got a 1/2 CBN spray and horsehide, others got a 1/4 micron CBN spray and Roo leather strop. Kinda fun to play around with different stuff! I got a couple nicks from the square end of one of the blades and didn't even feel it.

I will agree your Jnats need to be flat. If you are seeing areas that don 't make contact on the edge the stones need correcting.
That said not all your stones may be ideal for razors especially a soft Aoto. I'm assuming it's a soft stone.

Wise move.

I like the 12K edge after Chrome Oxide or .50 CBN and use the .25 for maintenance. You can paste a razor daily on the .25 CBN, the edge will continue to get better for up to about a week, then plateau to a very nice edge.

Try misting the CBN strop with distilled water for a super finish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by onimaru55

I will agree your Jnats need to be flat. If you are seeing areas that don 't make contact on the edge the stones need correcting.
That said not all your stones may be ideal for razors especially a soft Aoto. I'm assuming it's a soft stone.

---

One of my father's favorite sayings was; Don't Ask Just Anyone, Ask Someone Who Knows Something!

Thanks for the info my good mate :tu

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cudarunner

One of my father's favorite sayings was; Don't Ask Just Anyone, Ask Someone Who Knows Something!

Thanks for the info my good mate :tu

---

Roy. You reminded me of my ex-boss who used to often ask to speak to someone with some intelligence when he got on the phone to order parts. Some got insulted & some just passed the phone to their superior but we mostly got the right parts delivered . :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Roy. You reminded me of my ex-boss who used to often ask to speak to someone with some intelligence when he got on the phone to order parts. Some got insulted & some just passed the phone to their superior but we mostly got the right parts delivered . :)

---

If the Big Pond wasn't separating us I'd swear that your ex-boss and my dad were brothers. Dad just called them as he saw them/he'd never have lasted here at SRP:tu

:HJ Back to the Question At Hand

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Roy. You reminded me of my ex-boss who used to often ask to speak to someone with some intelligence when he got on the phone to order parts. Some got insulted & some just passed the phone to their superior but we mostly got the right parts delivered . :)

---

When I asked that question when talking to Time Warner Cable, they hung up. Unfortunately they were just being honest…

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Euclid440

When I asked that question when talking to Time Warner Cable, they hung up. Unfortunately they were just being honest…

---

Takes a bit of luck sometimes with IT stuff .. or they just put you on hold for a long time till they escalate to someone capable. :)

LOL...I have HAD. I have several 2K ish stones. Green Brick of Joy from Naniwa, Shapton Pro 2K, Synthetic Blue Aoto, 1-3K Aoto from Metal Master in Japan. My San Aoto is more of a 3-5K and is very hard and produces little mud. Also have a Rika 5K, Meara 4-6K stone, 2 Hakka's (different hardnesses), 2 Narutaki (2 hardnesses) as well. For razors, only the San Aoto has been used so far; the others are too soft or not flattened enough to even try!

I tried with the Kamisori after the honing to 12K, .25 micron CBN on balsa and then stropped on a bare roo strop. Stupidly sharp edge, but still tugged. I do have a wiry beard, so that may be part of the problem. May need to look at preshave stuff next!

I don’t under stand? How did you get to 12k if your stone is 3-5k.

If it is tugging, the edge is not sharp.

What does the edge look like?

I was just talking about the stones I had in the 3-5K range! One of the guys said that a softer Aoto may not work as well, so I listed the stones I have in the Aoto range! After the 3-5K, I went to the Yaginoshima Asagi (around 8K), then tried a Takashima, Hideriyama Nakayama and Ozuka Asagi on my almost all J Nat attempt (used a bester 1200 to set the bevel).

I have a ton of other stones from 150 grit up to the Ozuka Asagi, which is my finest grit stone so far. I am currently using the synthetics as my progession: Naniwa SS1K, Norton 4K/8K, Naniwa SS 12K.

The edge on the Kamisori is very clean looking, crisp bevels, looks very clean and smooth under 30X, edge goes to the apex, etc. It tree tops arm hair pretty easily. May not be using the correct angle on the face or something? My beard is very wiry, which may be contributing to the issue as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by taz575

May not be using the correct angle on the face or something?

---

This issue is very common. So much so that a number of makers printed instructions on their boxes.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/shavi...ng-basics.html

Well, the SR's and Kamisori have the same edge finish wise under the Loupe, much less pulling with the SR, so it may be the slight angle difference between the kamisori and SR's.