First Honing

I just got the delivery with my Norton set (220/1k,4k,8k) and a Naniwa 12k stone (plus I now have a pasted strop with Chromium Oxide). So, this week will be my first attempt at honing. I have two vintage razors in pretty good shape (Boker and a Dovo from eBay) but are definitely not sharp. Stones are lapped and should be ready to go. I've reviewed most of the literature out there and have Lynn's DVD as well, so I feel pretty good on technique overall and figure it's time to put the metal to the stone. So, here's a chance for some advice to the new guy. I have been shaving with a pro honed SR for a little over a month and know what I'm going for, just need advice to get there.

So a few questions for guidance and I'm open to additional input!

1) Thumb pad test - one of the razors doesn't seem to want to let go of my thumb when I roll it, but it also doesn't feel like it has any danger of cutting my skin either. Does that mean the bevel is there and I should just go to the 4k, or should I run it on the 1k? (I know it's feel, but from that, what's your guess?)
2) In the progression from 1k to 4k and 4k to 8k, what do you recommend for validations? What are your benchmarks and tests that the razor is ready for the next level?

One idea I had originally was to send one of these two out to get the bevel set and then try to get the other to match it, but I think I'm going to try one on my own first and see if it gives me fits or not.

Use the 220 for your knives. Get a good light or a loupe. You'll be able to see the bevel better. Thats a nice set though. Cant go wrong with that. It takes time. Yes send one out. Just ask there are many here. Then try your set on the other one and compare. You'll figure it out.

Coming off of a 1k it should cut arm or leg hair at the skin level.
At the 4k level it should cut hair 1/4" above the skin.
You can also try slicing a hot dog with it. If the bevel is set, it should go right through nice and smoothly.

For me, a big part of honing is a smooth feel and an even sound. That's the only way I know how to describe it.

For the thumb pad I do a pull test. Lightly pulling the razor over the pad and it should cut the callus with a slight drag. Best is the hair test cutting at skin level no pressure and no tugging just nice and smooth. You can also try the pyramid method for a way to take a bit of the quess work out. Good luck

One of these threads is about a 1k shave. Take the challenge. Hone on just the 1k until you can shave with it. The 4k 8k and finishers will make the shave smoother.

Pyramid works well when just starting out but the bevel set on the 1k or 4k (it will take longer) is critical to success.

I use what little arm hair I have left as a test, that, a good 60x loupe and shaving.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I tried last night on my two eBay razors and took them through 12k and CrOx just to see how they faired. One of the razors actually I would characterize as "shave-possible", the other needs work. :) Good news is, I actually got a decent bevel set after about three tries with one razor, and then got it in one try on the second razor. That second razor was the one that actually can shave (albeit, uncomfortable). So, a good experiment so far. I think I'm going to take the advice of JTmke and take the Dovo back to the 1k to get it to be able to shave off of that.

Thats how we all learn. Keep going.

Is one of these razors the one that was pro honed?

If so, then it should not need bevel setting. Chrome Ox strop and or the 12K is all you will need.

I did not see where you had magnification. Learning to hone without magnification is like learning to drive with your eyes closed.
As said get some magnification and strong light and first look at the bevels and straight down on the edge. That will tell you what needs to be done. It could be just a 12k touch up or a full bevel set.

Once the bevel is set, you are absolutely sure it is completely set across the full length of the edge, then progress to the 4k. Hair test, tell you only the 1 micron of edge is sharp, not the rest of the edge. Your eyes will tell you when the whole bevel is set, no shinny reflections of light.

TPT is learned by experience, test every sharp object, to calibrate “your” thumb. Telling someone what a TPT feels like is like telling someone how tight is tight.

At 4k, remove the 1k stria without chipping or rolling the edge, again look at the bevel and straight down on the edge. Inking the bevel can help you here, once the ink is completely removed so should the previous stria, as the ink fills the stria.

At 8 and 12k do the same. Angle the last few strokes in opposite directions in the progression. Use little pressure in the mid grits and almost none to finish.

Once the bevels are flat and meeting evenly (Bevel Set) the mid grits go quickly, finish with light long strokes. Everything after bevel setting is polishing, the more you polish the finer/straighter the edge. Too much or too much pressure can chip or make a fragile edge.

Experience will tell you how much is too much. Once the previous stria is removed, strop on plain leather and shave. Strop on Chrome Ox for comfort or to refresh an edge as needed.

Here

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Is one of these razors the one that was pro honed?

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No, my pro-honed one I just did the Chrome Ox and it is shaving fine. These two were to try to take some dull razors picked up from eBay. So, I have a good razor (Ralf Aust from SRD) and it's shaving great!

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

I did not see where you had magnification. Learning to hone without magnification is like learning to drive with your eyes closed.
As said get some magnification and strong light and first look at the bevels and straight down on the edge. That will tell you what needs to be done. It could be just a 12k touch up or a full bevel set.

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I have a loupe and didn't go into detail on what I tried, but I was getting a good view of the bevel in comparison to what I started with and what I ended up with. Problem is the comparison between pro-honed near perfect razor and the butter knives I had to work with. I definitely made progress, and could see it (and feel it), but definitely had to learn a bit of "No, you actually do want the edge to look that clean." :)

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Once the bevel is set, you are absolutely sure it is completely set across the full length of the edge, then progress to the 4k. Hair test, tell you only the 1 micron of edge is sharp, not the rest of the edge. Your eyes will tell you when the whole bevel is set, no shinny reflections of light.

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Definitely think that I've got most of the bevel set on the Boker, and only a small part on the Dovo . . . so I do think I'm going to back to work on the 1k with the Dovo and really study how it changes.

And I had zero expectations of this honing job and mainly worked on both razors because one has a strong shoulder and the other didn't (made the honing just feel different, and I apparently worked a lot better on the razor without the shoulder). The big thing is, I wanted to feel the process and see where it went. I definitely made the right strokes at times, and took a completely dull razor to being able to shave, albeit, not entirely smooth or comfortable. So, I did the right things at times, and just need to improve my consistency. Definitely now that I have a bit more knowledge/experience, I'm going to try to work on the 1k some more to see if I can get it to shave off of that before taking it up the grit ladder.

If your going to reset the bevel, be sure and remove your existing edge by cutting across a flat piece of glass.

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Originally Posted by feltspanky

If your going to reset the bevel, be sure and remove your existing edge by cutting across a flat piece of glass.

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Have never understood this. If you have been working on a bevel but haven't gotten it yet why make more work. Just keep going till you do have a bevel. Fair enough if it was over honed but it's likely it aint so why ruin what work you have already achieved

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Originally Posted by eddy79

Have never understood this. If you have been working on a bevel but haven't gotten it yet why make more work. Just keep going till you do have a bevel. Fair enough if it was over honed but it's likely it aint so why ruin what work you have already achieved

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http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...icrochips.html

If you read on through that "downstroking" thread you'll find the guy was looking at micro chips at 450 power magnification. I've yet to dull a razor on glass before setting a bevel. If I see micro chips at 30 or 40 power magnification, I hone them out in the normal honing fashion. Speaking of chips that cannot be seen with the naked eye, or felt with a TNT.

It has been quite a few years, but IIRC the guy who first suggested dulling the razor before you start honing was trying to have everyone start on a level playing field in a supposed contest of sorts. The razors were to be honed, and then mailed to the contestants to judge the quality of the honing. Turned out to be too convoluted to get off the ground. So the contest never happened and dulling the razor on glass took on a life of its own.

Read the article. The wiki author said it is a way to dull a razor before starting to set the bevel not something done half way through because you ain't there yet. So again keep going till the bevel is set. How long? Till the bevel is set

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

It has been quite a few years, but IIRC the guy who first suggested dulling the razor before you start honing was trying to have everyone start on a level playing field in a supposed contest of sorts. The razors were to be honed, and then mailed to the contestants to judge the quality of the honing. Turned out to be too convoluted to get off the ground. So the contest never happened and dulling the razor on glass took on a life of its own.

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Exactly. The idea was to hone a bunch of chinese double arrow razors until they were shaveready, then dull them on glass to remove the edge but not destroy the bevel, and then send them out for honing. Due to various reasons, the contest never actually happened.

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Originally Posted by eddy79

For the thumb pad I do a pull test. Lightly pulling the razor over the pad and it should cut the callus with a slight drag. Best is the hair test cutting at skin level no pressure and no tugging just nice and smooth. You can also try the pyramid method for a way to take a bit of the quess work out. Good luck

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One of the best explanations I've seen. Simply put with different options.

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Originally Posted by Steel

One of the best explanations I've seen. Simply put with different options.

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But what about the HHT?

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Originally Posted by ace

But what about the HHT?

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No such thing. It doesn't work! No good. I don't know what you're talking about. <steel lowers voice to a whisper> are you trying to get us killed Ace?

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Originally Posted by ace

But what about the HHT?

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Honestly have never used the hht at bevel setting only at the finishing stones. Will have to give it a try