I have heeded the warnings and i still think its a good idea

hey guys
i just wanted to post my current thoughts from someone new to razor honing.
As you may know from my topic a few days ago i was having a little trouble with a frowny bevel, what i didnt state in the topic was that it is not the edge but the upper line of the bevel that has frowned, but on further inspection i can see more hone wear than i could at first glance and still i think the problem was enhanced by my own hand and added pressure. (i gotta add at this point, hats off to the guy who sold me the razor, it came with a great edge and must have taken skill to hone)

but this is not the reason im posting, i will update that thread with a few pics and tears.

the reason for this thread is starting out honing.

i have found out the hard way that honing a razor is quite different to putting a good edge on a knife. my first hone was fantastic and its the smoothest of the 3 razors i own, that was on an auction razor that required a bevel set/upward. i felt a little proud that my first honing worked out superbly.
my second didnt go so well, the razor already shaved, i just wanted to polish it some, and it ended up BAD. so i went back and reset the bevel and i ran into the problems from my other topic ect.


this brings me here.....

the razor i damaged was a nice le grelot wedge, im not sure yet to the extent of the damage...

i know there is no love lost here for the crappy gold dollar, but i just ordered one.. im thinking even if the le grelot had cost the same as a gold dollar, i would rather make mistakes on the dollar. i was even thinking about buying a box of 10 wholesale just to destroy and learn about pressure/stroke/stones/ect

as much as the bad rep, don't you think the challenges needed to to make a dollar shave worthy also may make them a good learning tool?
as in $$££/knowledge gained

thanks for any comments.
i understand the dollars have there own sub forum, but to me this is more about learning hones and to hone

also grrrrrrrrrrrrrr whiskey (lil drunk by the end of this post) yay whiskey \o/

Didn't see your other post, but sorry to hear of the honing Luck and then misfortune.
Not sure what to say about the GD's for practice I'm torn. Part of me says go for it at least you'll get an idea of what your hones are doing to the steel (as I under stand the steel is decent that's used for GD's).
The GD's shoulders will most likely be a problem, so you will need grind them down to hone properly. I've honed a few GD's with success. Even with found in the wild blades you'll find issues, so the GD's will most likely help you sort through those issues on the keepers when you run across them.

Best advice I can give is, keep your hones flat, keep the spine on the hone, go slow, moderate pressure for setting bevels and light for the rest. I do 20 circles heavy, 20 X heavy strokes, 20 light circles 20 light X strokes and the bevels set. If you don't have a loupe get one so you can look at the edge (I always look for a shadow at the very edge, if I get rid of that I move on), also I use the thumb pad test and thumb nail test across the whole edge - on the TNT the edge sticks in your nail instead of sliding. After that test though do 10 X strokes and then move on to the next higher grit hone you have.

I'm right there with what Trimmy said. I am not sure why you would want to learn from a razor with a reputation for bad geometry though. My thought is start with a good blade and if you kill it honing oh well. Now I'm not saying start with an expensive razor. There are nice blades that go for $50 in the classifieds all the time. Grab one, you can even ask the person selling if it is a good starter. In fact I would be willing to bet if you put an ad in the classifieds saying you were looking for a razor to learn to hone on you would find some good ones for less than that. That's my two cents.

If you are truly looking to master honing the good, the bad, and the ugly then getting some GDs to work through isn't a bad idea. I have head Glen say on more than one occasion that honing a razor with no problems is easy, its the ones with wear and tear that test your skill. My experience to date only confirms this.

RezDog makes some good points. There are a lot of paths to take. A lot of people like this option less, but in the end will work as well as others.

If you are only interested in learning the upkeep of a razor then I would not go down this path. Start being much more vigilant on what you purchase and just have a high grit touch up hone on hand.

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Originally Posted by RezDog

I'm right there with what Trimmy said. I am not sure why you would want to learn from a razor with a reputation for bad geometry though.

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Shhh.....(says quietly to self) to save the good ones for the rest of us.....LOL :shrug:

totally kidding...

I was given two GD's by a member here from Toronto, LilRascal...he gave me one that he honed and it was fantastic, shaved very well. He gave me another one that was brand new, just a factory edge. That's what I practised on for quite awhile...dulling the edges on both and trying to bring them back to shave ready.

I did that, and if I had to, could hone a razor...it would probably be passable. So if you plan on learning to hone extensively, using a GD and moving into using some old vintage blades is a great way.

For me, my effort is spent on refreshing a blade when it needs it. Mine have all been professionally honed, so the bevel and it's first edge is nicely set. After that, I can bring it back on my Nani 12k and finish up on the small Escher I have, and I've had success doing that.

But it sounds like what you're doing is a perfect way to learn honing, trial and error on a razor that's easily replaceable. :D

Honing is a skill which takes time and perseverance to master. Watch what you are doing and keep focused. That way you learn from mistakes. If I am spacing out, I stop. Then start again when I can pay attention.

GD or any razor that has the shoulder properly finished so it does not interfere with honing is a good choice. If the shoulder is the former crummy GD shoulder you can learn how to reshape it and go onward from there. If the shoulder goes to the bevel, I can pretty well guarantee that you will have honing problems. I have a few oldies which make me glad that I did a few GD GD's and became able to see the shoulder problems and frowns they often had.

~Richard

I also used a gold dollar for practice. Just know you may have to grind it down some in the shoulder area first. They do take a good edge once you get them to lay flat on a stone.

It just kills me to ruin something nice, i dont mind ruining tat. Anyway, off to buy a vernier :rofl2:

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Originally Posted by stev

It just kills me to ruin something nice, i dont mind ruining tat. Anyway, off to buy a vernier :rofl2:

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Good first step. Think of your GDs as oversized blanks of tempered steel that have properly shaped razors within them.

"Hardware Store" straights go for pennies on d'Bay. They're a great way to work on your honing as some of them will throw the kitchen sink at you. As a bonus, once they're up to speed, you've got some nice shavers. Also a great way to break into restoration without breaking the bank.

I agree with you Mike I paid less than a gold dollar new for a Kinfolks Blue steel, and the blade is one of the finest pieces of steel around,, from Little Valley NY,, if a gold dollar is what you want go for it ,, I just don't like wasting my time on a maybe but YMMV, ive always bought quality over price any way tc

Timely topic, as I just shave tested a GD today. It was my third hone (fourth if you count two tries), and was the most difficult. The spine arrived "potato shaped" and took some work to get flat. I'm a little stunned at the better quality geometry in 100 year old blades than in current production from China...it's not rocket science.

In the end, I have a decent shaver, more experience, and new insight for a very few dollars.

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Originally Posted by Bentlink

Timely topic, as I just shave tested a GD today. It was my third hone (fourth if you count two tries), and was the most difficult. The spine arrived "potato shaped" and took some work to get flat. I'm a little stunned at the better quality geometry in 100 year old blades than in current production from China...it's not rocket science.

In the end, I have a decent shaver, more experience, and new insight for a very few dollars.

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this was exactly my intention :) not the decent shaver, but the experience and insight.

I have had quite a lot of fun honing,correcting and shaving with gold dollars.as an aside i use them when i travel by car in the cheap hotels i'v used it pays to not take your top shelf equipment along for the maids to pilfer.cheers. -CAM-

Very wise, I am still to become owner of "top shelf equipment" however. Really taken a liking to KROPP razors since i picked one up from auction, currently working on a second for which i just received some lovely spalted beech.

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Originally Posted by stev

Very wise, I am still to become owner of "top shelf equipment" however. Really taken a liking to KROPP razors since i picked one up from auction, currently working on a second for which i just received some lovely spalted beech.

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The KROPP were a plain "working man's razor." That said, I have never found one to be less than stellar in grind and steel quality.
Enjoy it for another generation!
~Richard

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Originally Posted by Bentlink

I'm a little stunned at the better quality geometry in 100 year old blades than in current production from China...it's not rocket science.

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When you have experience of trying to get a nice, tiny, even bevel on a 100 year old wedge, I suspect you will have changed your opinion. The thing to remember about any razor that is new to you is that you don't know how it was honed before. The OP makes reference to a razor that he screwed up that was shave ready before he started- was tape used previously? If so, how many layers? One thing is for sure, if a hone does not lay perfectly flat on the hone, it will take some experience to et a bevel set all along the edge. Tape may play a part in that so to my mind, experimenting with less than perfect razors gives valuable experience - especially in how spine wear and bevel differences start to become apparent. Looking at the wear on tape can tell you a whole lot about what would have happened to the steel without the tape.

I kinda figured just from appearance that this was their lot in life, you can tell they are pure functionality, my first hone was a KROPP and it was as if it told me how it wanted to be honed.
the one im working on is a beefcake. They really do just wanna shave you.