What to get for Flattening - Granite + Sandpaper or DMTd8c

I'm trying to determine what I would like to get to flatten my stones: A certified Granite and use Wet/Dry paper or a DMTd8c. I will probably at some time get both but for now I just want to get what I would end up liking best for now. I have mostly synthetic (more shapton glass than any) in my progression. I know that this is probably more of preference but what are some of the pro's and con's of each.

Unless I end up doing a restore from a blade with a totally square bevel in the near future, I really don't need any slurry on my Norton 4/8 or chosera 1k at this moment.

Get the DMT,,,,,,,,,,,,:beer2:

+1 on the DMT, I tried several other lapping stones/plates but went with what most people on here recommend and find it easy to use and fast

Sandpaper or Grit can and will embed into the softer waterstones, the first time you are at the 8k level and smack one and have to start over taking out the dinger will be the same time you smack yourself in the forehead and say "I could have bought a Diamond Plate" :nj

Does anyone use anything finer than the d8c? I hear a lot of people using it, but is there a reason why that is the plate of choice ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Sandpaper or Grit can and will embed into the softer waterstones, the first time you are at the 8k level and smack one and have to start over taking out the dinger will be the same time you smack yourself in the forehead and say "I could have bought a Diamond Plate" :nj

---

Thanks Glen, that makes a ton of sense

Is there any reason, even beyond honing razors, where flatness beyond the d8c would even be necessary?

I agree with the DMT. I started with a granite tile and sandpaper, but once I got the DMT I never regretted it. For how many times I have used it so far I would have paid alot more for the sandpaper if I would have kept going that route.

Well, I picked up the DMT Lapping Plate instead of the D8C. The lapping plate is certified to be flat to a tighter tolerance, but I haven't heard of many D8Cs being to bad. I do think I will pick up a D8C for touch up flattening cause the Lapping Plate is too damn heavy. I don't think the extra bit of flatness makes a difference.

Don't overlook the ATOMA 400 diamond plate. It's a fast lapper...........

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mrsell63

Don't overlook the ATOMA 400 diamond plate. It's a fast lapper...........

---

Is there anything that makes it a better purchase than the d8c. I guess I would like to justify the extra $

For lapping I picked this up, a Naniwa Flattening Stone, they are fairly inexpensive:

Naniwa Flattening Stone

Mind you, I'm not by any means someone who spends lots of time honing. I've lapped my Norton 4/8 twice, and my Nani 12k twice, using the pencil grid. I really only refresh my blades using the Nani 12k, but this Flattening stone worked fine.

Just another option....

A granite tile and wet & dry work well for initial flatting of a stone, but for every day touching up, it is a Pain in the Buttocks to drag out all the gear to refresh a stone. I give them a couple swipes with a diamond plate before each use and if they start to feel sluggish.

A diamond plate is much cleaner, quicker and simpler, for the average user it is a lifetime purchase. Use under water.
There are a number of Diamond plates that will work for lapping and slurry. You can buy no name plates from EBay in the 15 -20 dollar range that work just fine. I know one guy that uses a cheapo HF plate to lap and he can produce a very fine edge, from a King 1k and barber hone.

Your diamond plate and your stones do not need to be dead flat. Smooth is more important than flat, flat is better, but not critical and will not affect the honing of a razor.

If you plate or your stone is not flat, the object you are flattening or honing will just ride on the high spots, and perhaps take a lap or two more to achieve the same result of a perfectly flat stone or plate.

The bottom line is don’t, overthink it, lap your stones and spend time learning to use your stones, not the lapping plates.
In the old days… don’t think they worried too much about how flat their naturals were.

For some natural stones, I use a 600 or 1200 Diamond Plate to slurry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phrank

For lapping I picked this up, a Naniwa Flattening Stone, they are fairly inexpensive:

Naniwa Flattening Stone

Mind you, I'm not by any means someone who spends lots of time honing. I've lapped my Norton 4/8 twice, and my Nani 12k twice, using the pencil grid. I really only refresh my blades using the Nani 12k, but this Flattening stone worked fine.

Just another option....

---

Like have the Norton version of this. The consensus seems to be the ,,,DMT. Any reason why these style stones are out of fashion?

I have the Norton flattening plate, they are slow, messy and leave grit all over the stone.

The DMT or any diamond plate is a much better solution.

Well I just put the DMT on my Christmas list now hopefully I'll get one. :gl:

I just recently got a Norton 4/8 and what I found interesting is that in the pamphlet that came with it Norton recommends lapping the 4k/8k stone at 400-600 grit and the 220/1k stone at 220 grit. I'm not sure what the advertised grit of the lapping plate is but I think I recall seeing 220 somewhere. Strange they would recommend two different grits for lapping but package the set they sell with a one size fits all flattening stone.

In any case I used a broken in DMT D8C which I figured was close enough to 400 grit. Worked like a charm and it's amazing how much these smooth out from the factory with a good lapping.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WizardWG4

I just recently got a Norton 4/8 and what I found interesting is that in the pamphlet that came with it Norton recommends lapping the 4k/8k stone at 400-600 grit and the 220/1k stone at 220 grit. I'm not sure what the advertised grit of the lapping plate is but I think I recall seeing 220 somewhere. Strange they would recommend two different grits for lapping but package the set they sell with a one size fits all flattening stone.

In any case I used a broken in DMT D8C which I figured was close enough to 400 grit. Worked like a charm and it's amazing how much these smooth out from the factory with a good lapping.

---

Yeah the DMT is about middle of the road to the recommendations with the d8c being 325. The Lapping plate is I think 160, while the d8f is 600. so you can pick your poison. I think the reason that everyone gets the d8c, as I have been looking for the past 2 days, is simply because it is a middle of the road grit that works fast but smooth. But if we want smoother the d8f I would assume would be the way to go.

What's everyone else's thoughts on using the d8f on the 4k/8k?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rlmnshvstr8

What's everyone else's thoughts on using the d8f on the 4k/8k?

---

Waterstones in general are soft enough that going any higher then about 400 really doesn't give any advantage to the edge.. You have to remember that they actually work by releasing/exposing new grit..

Now Oilstones are a different story the higher they are lapped and burnished the finer finish they give..

Many will argue this all day with different opinions, about all kinds of different rocks :p

It does actually work to give a better finish even on water stones, but the effect doesn't last long for the reason Glen mentioned. For knife sharpening it would be worthless, but for razor honing it can last long enough to be of use on stones like the Shapton Pro line as long as only very light, even pressure is used and only for so many strokes. Once even one bit of abrasive/binder breaks loose though, the whole surface will rapidly revert to the stone's natural texture.

I used to use the d8c but now have a atoma 400. Works quicker and doesn't stick all the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rlmnshvstr8

Is there anything that makes it a better purchase than the d8c. I guess I would like to justify the extra $

---

Can't speak for everyone, but for me, yes!

I have 2 DMTD8C's and both are warped from end to end making them high in the center. Not a lot, but enough that I've chosen to not use them for lapping. I use them for quick removal of metal when fixing chips, etc. on razors.

My go to lapping plates are the Atoma 400 and 1200. The Atoma's are an aluminum plate milled to an exact flatness and then have a thin metal sheet with diamond that's attached to the aluminum. The diamond sheet can be replaced if damaged and you can get another sheet with a different grit, i.e. 1200 and attach it to the opposite side and have two in one. Also the diamond pattern on the Atoma is less given to stiction.

Here's a link with info and a trusted source. I've bought from them several times as have many others here on the forum.

Atoma diamond plates. : Tools from Japan, Japanese woodworking tools direct from Japan.

:gl:

Best Regards,

Howard :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rlmnshvstr8

Does anyone use anything finer than the d8c? I hear a lot of people using it, but is there a reason why that is the plate of choice ?

---

DMT used to advise nothing finer than the DMTC for waterstones due to wear issues on the finer plates. Now they just recommend their 120grit lapping plate.
The Atoma 600 &1200 can be used safely having a different type of surface but if your DMT is flat & you have arms like Popeye it's all you'll need. :)

Well, I just picked up at my local knife store the DMT d8c and after checking for flatness taking an old screw driver across it, WOW, what a world of difference compared to what I had previously, which was the Norton Flattening Stone. When I started with the DMT, it was noticed that all my stones still were not flat even though I used the Norton on them and of course some of my new shapton glasses I recently purchased that I was waiting to get the DMT for, because a was afraid to put the Norton on them to scratch them up. I think I'm going to be very happy with the DMT

I am liking the new Trend Diamond Plate. 300/1000. Outrageous warranty if you use their little eraser and cleaner. The plate itself works very well. The 300 grit site has those X etchings in it also which keeps sticktion to a minimum.

Have fun

I still use old skool stuff: a glass plate with good quality sanding paper. That seems to suffice for my coticules.

I've been using SIC (Silicon Carbide) powder with excellent success.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lynn

I am liking the new Trend Diamond Plate. 300/1000. Outrageous warranty if you use their little eraser and cleaner. The plate itself works very well. The 300 grit site has those X etchings in it also which keeps sticktion to a minimum.

Have fun

---

Yes sir that's what I'm thinking's my next purchase.
Mike