Uneven spine wear causing problems setting bevel

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12-22-2014, 02:36 PM
s0litarys0ldier

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Uneven spine wear causing problems setting bevel

Okay guys I'm having trouble setting the bevel on a razor of mine. There is a large amount of uneven spine wear. I am having trouble only setting one small corner of the bevel on the side with the etching (very faded) the corner with by the heel is still reflecting light in a different direction. It will shave arm hair. My question is... Is there any way to fix this bevel without using tape? Should I just keep on honing until it has evened out? I'm at a loss right now to either keep going or just finish honing and cut the heel from my routine.

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12-22-2014, 04:02 PM
Chinaski

Have you tried sharpie (magic marker test)? With that test you can see where is touching the stone. Then you may do some rolling x strokes. Uneven bevel is not a big problem if you are sure about tbe bevel is set.
12-22-2014, 04:24 PM
s0litarys0ldier

I have been using rolling x strokes for the first time and they are helping a lot.
12-22-2014, 04:43 PM
gssixgun

The hone wear is showing up as an incorrect stroke for the razor..

Now is it you or the spine ???

Put a layer of tape on there,

Hone

Look at the tape wear, if it is the same then the issue is you and not the razor.

Imagine a snowy road with wheel ruts going down it, the tape acts as a plow that evens out the surface, so now you can create your on tracks..
If your tracks are still uneven then you need to adjust the honing stroke...

Once you figure it out then you can drop the tape and adjust accordingly if you want..
12-22-2014, 05:09 PM
s0litarys0ldier

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

The hone wear is showing up as an incorrect stroke for the razor..

Now is it you or the spine ???

Put a layer of tape on there,

Hone

Look at the tape wear, if it is the same then the issue is you and not the razor.

Imagine a snowy road with wheel ruts going down it, the tape acts as a plow that evens out the surface, so now you can create your on tracks..
If your tracks are still uneven then you need to adjust the honing stroke...

Once you figure it out then you can drop the tape and adjust accordingly if you want..

Thank you for taking the time to respond to this and pass on some advice. I received the razor in this condition. I will follow your advice and put a layer of tape on there. Would I continue to do a rolling x stroke with the tape on there? You're saying that if the wear marks on the tape are exactly the same as the spine I am doing something wrong? If they are nice and even then it is not of my doing?
12-22-2014, 05:16 PM
s0litarys0ldier

I used a layer of tape and instantly my bevel's sharpness rose substantially. The tape is also wearing in a straight line. Would I assume that this razors only chance at salvation lies in the piece of tape covering it's hone worn spine?:hmmm:
12-22-2014, 06:33 PM
gssixgun

Pat yourself on the back it is the razor. not you :tu

If you want to hone without tape then one of two things has to happen,

1. Grind the crap out of the spine until it is even with the edge, may not even be possible
2. Adapt with a whole new twist on honing gymnastics and carefully applied pressure to hone around the "Off" spine, Oh Yea, Oh Joy, Oh Rapture :p

Oh Yeah, of course the one layer of tape will obviously work, you have proved that already :)

Merry Christmas !!!
12-22-2014, 07:13 PM
s0litarys0ldier

Mr. Glen, you made my day. I am relieved to find out that it was razor! I did want to hone without tape but prior to using a layer of tape I must've done 400+ strokes to try and even the spine out to the edge. I am now fully satisfied with the edge I got honing with a layer of tape. Much better then the edge before I put the tape on. I learned a few things today. The rolling X stroke being one of them but the other being that sometimes it isn't you, its the razor. Hate to be a bother but on a different note why is my water stone so thirsty it seems I can never get a swarf build up because I am spraying the damn thing every 30 seconds. It is rather annoying but if that's how they all are then what can I do. Merry Christmas to you too. Thank you.
12-22-2014, 08:42 PM
gssixgun

Sorry Scott, I didn't see where you say the type/brand of water stone :shrug:
12-22-2014, 09:37 PM
Euclid440

Use a squirt bottle, some stones are that way and need to be soaked before use.

Buy better razors and make your life easier, don’t buy razors with hone ware on the spine, there is always another razor.
12-23-2014, 01:53 AM
s0litarys0ldier

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Sorry Scott, I didn't see where you say the type/brand of water stone :shrug:

I got it on amazon.ca http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B005...ilpage_o02_s00 I was in a pinch so I just grabbed it for the 1 day shipping. I soak it for about 10 minutes and then use a squirt bottle and it still seems like it is just drinking my water. Euclid440 I use the bottle more so then not. (It needs it) I actually got that razor from a mentor and friend on here. He was nice enough to give it to me to start on something better then a GD. It's an honour to use it, besides being broke and in college I can't afford to buy anything else.
12-23-2014, 06:23 AM
aa1192

Some stones are just water hogs. I have a King 1k that gobbles it up compared to my Nani. Why are you wanting a swarf build up? What stones are you using? I have some rocks collecting dust I might be able to send ya.
12-23-2014, 02:09 PM
s0litarys0ldier

I am using only the one I linked for a bevel setter and a pretty small coticule to finish the process. Not ideal but it works for the most part.
12-23-2014, 02:57 PM
Siguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa1192

I have a King 1k that gobbles it up compared to my Nani.

Concur. While the Nanis get a 1-3 minutes dip, the King 1k can stand in water for a while and still come out with a wicked thirst. Never did have problems building up a swarf though. Albeit, on the King, it may be a dried up swarf if going to long without water.
12-23-2014, 08:37 PM
Cangooner

Hey Scott - I was going to apologize for inflicting a wonky bevel on you, but since it seems to have worked out I'll claim to have done that as an intentional learning opportunity. :) *Very* happy to see it has worked out for you.

As for thirsty stones, my Norton 1K could sit in water all day and still soak up everything I spray on it after. Just the nature of the beast with some stones - particularly lower grit bevel setters (in my relatively limited experience at least).
12-24-2014, 02:07 AM
ScottGoodman

A trick for a king is to use spray laquer on the backside of the stone and soak it 30 min prior to use. I have even laquered part of the side of my king (I use it for knives) and it has helped drastically!
12-24-2014, 03:00 AM
s0litarys0ldier

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cangooner

Hey Scott - I was going to apologize for inflicting a wonky bevel on you, but since it seems to have worked out I'll claim to have done that as an intentional learning opportunity. :) *Very* happy to see it has worked out for you.

As for thirsty stones, my Norton 1K could sit in water all day and still soak up everything I spray on it after. Just the nature of the beast with some stones - particularly lower grit bevel setters (in my relatively limited experience at least).

Almost anything can be fixed with enough time, patience and guidance. I am having trouble getting it to shave ready though. Using the rolling x vs the regular x stroke. I have brought it down to bevel twice now... I was going to make a new thread but anyone reading this can throw in their advice. I have a coti and bbw as my other two stones (combo) It seems when i follow the unicot with a straight edge everything goes smoothly but when i use a rolling x stroke i can't seem to get it to shave ready. Quite frustrating but alas i am working on it again while my girlfriend sleeps. she has to work in the morning but I'm going to make this night #3 of trying to get this thing shaving using a rolling x stroke. It is throwing me off of my normal progression. Hmmm.
12-24-2014, 03:43 AM
Cangooner

Quote:

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

Almost anything can be fixed with enough time, patience and guidance. I am having trouble getting it to shave ready though. Using the rolling x vs the regular x stroke. I have brought it down to bevel twice now... I was going to make a new thread but anyone reading this can throw in their advice. I have a coti and bbw as my other two stones (combo) It seems when i follow the unicot with a straight edge everything goes smoothly but when i use a rolling x stroke i can't seem to get it to shave ready. Quite frustrating but alas i am working on it again while my girlfriend sleeps. she has to work in the morning but I'm going to make this night #3 of trying to get this thing shaving using a rolling x stroke. It is throwing me off of my normal progression. Hmmm.

Well, it was honed with a rolling X and one layer of tape in the past, so I'm sure you'll get there!

The best thing I've found with frustrating edges is to set it down, walk away, and clear the mind before picking it back up again. That helps keep the touch light, the mind focused, and the blood pressure down. I'm afraid I can't offer any advice particular to the unicot method or anything else coticule-related as I have yet to try one. But as has been said many times before, the tough work has to be done before you move from your 1K to the coti. Getting that bevel right is key, and that should be done on the 1K.

Hopefully someone more experienced will chime in with coti advice, but for now I'd say try not to even think about moving on to it until you're satisfied that the whole bevel has been set properly. Until that has been achieved, moving on to any other stone will just be making your life difficult.
12-24-2014, 03:48 AM
s0litarys0ldier

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cangooner

Well, it was honed with a rolling X and one layer of tape in the past, so I'm sure you'll get there!

The best thing I've found with frustrating edges is to set it down, walk away, and clear the mind before picking it back up again. That helps keep the touch light, the mind focused, and the blood pressure down. I'm afraid I can't offer any advice particular to the unicot method or anything else coticule-related as I have yet to try one. But as has been said many times before, the tough work has to be done before you move from your 1K to the coti. Getting that bevel right is key, and that should be done on the 1K.

Hopefully someone more experienced will chime in with coti advice, but for now I'd say try not to even think about moving on to it until you're satisfied that the whole bevel has been set properly. Until that has been achieved, moving on to any other stone will just be making your life difficult.

Thats the thing is the bevel has been set very well. The razor will not however pass the hanging hair test :s It feels very sharp but just isn't getting there.
12-24-2014, 03:53 AM
Cangooner

Quote:

Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

Thats the thing is the bevel has been set very well. The razor will not however pass the hanging hair test :s It feels very sharp but just isn't getting there.

Have you tried a shave test? HHT is only a useful guide if it's been calibrated, etc., and for some folks (and this includes myself) it seems to be completely useless! It works great for some, but not for all and I never use it. Glen has a shave test video out there somewhere. I'll find a link...

EDIT: here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93zQP7CToWQ
12-24-2014, 04:03 AM
s0litarys0ldier

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cangooner

Have you tried a shave test? HHT is only a useful guide if it's been calibrated, etc., and for some folks (and this includes myself) it seems to be completely useless! It works great for some, but not for all and I never use it. Glen has a shave test video out there somewhere. I'll find a link...

EDIT: here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93zQP7CToWQ

The shave test went horribly. Usually I can get a nice comfortable shave off my normal bevel set and then unicot method. Not so much after i decided to use the rolling x's. Even after two passes on the cheek WTG and XTG I can still feel stubble which never happens. So it is boggling my mind a bit but its using a different stroke with which I am not comfortable with. I did watch Glen's video yesterday while i was honing. I just finished my honing for the night now and will get a christmas eve shave tomorrow morning and see how its going. If all else fails I'm going to have to look into another method to accomplish a shave ready edge... The wait.... Merry Christmas BTW.
12-24-2014, 05:45 AM
RezDog

It is not always easy to get a great shave. Sometimes we have to go back and forth a few times. I think I am about 400ish razors in and think I have a ways to go yet before I'm in the pro category. However with every blade I learn a little. It does become more clear and easier to trouble shoot our issues as time passes along. That razor has enough issues in the geometry to make it a good challenge even for someone with a bit of experience. When you get this one done to your satisfaction you will have made a giant step. It is ok to put it aside and come back to it later.