Need honing advice for my 2nd kamisori

Hello there,

My first kamisori was a blunt object when I got it. Now after watching gssixgun's videos and the fantastic advice provided it with an edge with which I can have a nice shave.

I have purchased a second one off eBay and it's slightly different to what I expected and am used to.

Pictures are attached. The flat side has the engraved writing on it. The other side is convex as opposed to concave and has two flat edges.

The question is: what is it and which side should be hone - facing to do the greater number of laps? Once I've got that nailed down I'll be fine and dandy, it's just thrown me a bit.

I also need to clean up the handles of both of my kamisori one day... :)

I too have watched gssixgun's videos and have been able to get great edges on the two kamisoris that I have. I am not an expert by any means but I'm sure the ones that are will probably neeed better pictures. Especially one showing it from the end on. Is that an Iwasaki?


Mike

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mglindo

I too have watched gssixgun's videos and have been able to get great edges on the two kamisoris that I have. I am not an expert by any means but I'm sure the ones that are will probably neeed better pictures. Especially one showing it from the end on. Is that an Iwasaki?

Mike

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Mobile phones don't take the best kind of photos and I'm the world's worst photographer :)

I have attached an end on view of the blade itself courtesy of Norton and their waterstone boxes. I'll try to produce better pictures later if someone else requests and gives a bit of advice too!

It was sold as an Iwasaki. I have one sold as an Azuma and awaiting on one sold as an Inoue Tosuke. Until I have them cleaned up and I am able to take pictures, I'm taking the names given on eBay with a pinch of salt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elcs

Hello there,

My first kamisori was a blunt object when I got it. Now after watching gssixgun's videos and the fantastic advice provided it with an edge with which I can have a nice shave.

I have purchased a second one off eBay and it's slightly different to what I expected and am used to.

Pictures are attached. The flat side has the engraved writing on it. The other side is convex as opposed to concave and has two flat edges.

The question is: what is it and which side should be hone - facing to do the greater number of laps? Once I've got that nailed down I'll be fine and dandy, it's just thrown me a bit.

I also need to clean up the handles of both of my kamisori one day... :)

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Nice socks!!

Looking at the pics

There is no difference with how you hone this one, the difference is in the wear from the previous owners..

Just like western razors that are "Hone Worn" from improper previous honing Kamisori can suffer the same issues.
You know how sometimes you read and see statements like "Whatever works is fine, just so long as it works" the wear on this Kamisori is the outcome :(
Which way you proceed is going to be up to you, it looks as though it is going to be a hard row to hoe and cost a lot of steel to try and correct the geometry on this one.
Is the razor sharp now ??? or did they create all that wear and leave a dull razor ???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Looking at the pics

There is no difference with how you hone this one, the difference is in the wear from the previous owners..

Just like western razors that are "Hone Worn" from improper previous honing Kamisori can suffer the same issues.
You know how sometimes you read and see statements like "Whatever works is fine, just so long as it works" the wear on this Kamisori is the outcome :(
Which way you proceed is going to be up to you, it looks as though it is going to be a hard row to hoe and cost a lot of steel to try and correct the geometry on this one.
Is the razor sharp now ??? or did they create all that wear and leave a dull razor ???

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Ah so my stamp side was convex and whatever manner of butchery has occurred and it's now pretty flat? That makes sense. With that in mind, it looks like someone has really went to town on the edge and there's a bit of sunlight showing through under the blade if I put it edge down on a flat block. If there's a lot of correcting I just hope that my Norton 4k is enough and does not hate me after all of the abuse that it's coming in for.

I accidentally bounced the tip off of my finger tip and it went right through. The heel pops hairs but not in a great fashion and it's not something I'd put near my face yet. It's actually in better cutting shape than my Azuma before I watched your videos and took it to my Norton 4k/8k.

So, lot of wear, not near shave ready.

Yikes...

Yeah that is going to be some fun... A hone worn Kamisori with a slight frown :banghead:

Seeing more and more of them however..

You are going to have to get around that frown, and it is especially hard on a Kamisori because of the size of the blade, you just don't have the "Room to Move" like a Western and you also don't have the ability to use both sides to push the edge..

You do NOT want to breadknife the razor that doesn't work with a Kamisori like it does with a western..



:thinking:


I am assuming you want to bring it back to a traditional geometry ????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Yikes...

Yeah that is going to be some fun... A hone worn Kamisori with a slight frown :banghead:

Seeing more and more of them however..

You are going to have to get around that frown, and it is especially hard on a Kamisori because of the size of the blade, you just don't have the "Room to Move" like a Western and you also don't have the ability to use both sides to push the edge..

You do NOT want to breadknife the razor that doesn't work with a Kamisori like it does with a western..

:thinking:

I am assuming you want to bring it back to a traditional geometry ????

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Ideally yes, I'd prefer a traditional geometry. I'm just at a loss with how to tackle it.

It'd probably be much easier to bin it or do something non-traditional with it.. either way is going to be some good fun, frustration and a great learning tool.

I am thinking a 2 stage attack

Step 1.
Some spine off the hone Circles at the 4k level probably start at about a 45° angle to eliminate the frown, then drop to maybe 1 spine width above the hone.. Both sides that should even up the edge and not dull it out totally... Go Slow and Test often on a flat surface..

If that works

Step 2.
I think I would try some creative (you will need to trim the tape to make this work) taping, since you can't add steel back I would not take more away trying to fix it.. Maybe start with two layers on the stamped side and 3 on the hump and see what that does using the Magic Marker test with a few laps... You might have to adjust up or down.. Watch the wear on the Tape too make sure you are shifting pressure correctly...

This may or may not work but at least you are not making it worse by practicing on it :)

If it works then you can decide it it is even possible to grind off enough steel to correct the bad wear and get the right geometry back without the tape :shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I am thinking a 2 stage attack

Step 1.
Some spine off the hone Circles at the 4k level probably start at about a 45° angle to eliminate the frown, then drop to maybe 1 spine width above the hone.. Both sides that should even up the edge and not dull it out totally... Go Slow and Test often on a flat surface..

If that works

Step 2.
I think I would try some creative (you will need to trim the tape to make this work) taping, since you can't add steel back I would not take more away trying to fix it.. Maybe start with two layers on the stamped side and 3 on the hump and see what that does using the Magic Marker test with a few laps... You might have to adjust up or down.. Watch the wear on the Tape too make sure you are shifting pressure correctly...

This may or may not work but at least you are not making it worse by practicing on it :)

If it works then you can decide it it is even possible to grind off enough steel to correct the bad wear and get the right geometry back without the tape :shrug:

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Thanks for the help :) I'll try step one tomorrow and report back.

I need to post my other kamisori some time... maybe once I improve my photography skills :)

After around 90 minutes... I'm closer to flat but my arms hurt and I'm still looking at a wonky blade. Better than it was but still not quite there to move forward.

The first 10-15mm from the tip is curved upwards about 1mm at it's worst point. Near the heel there is a very slight bow over maybe 2cm that lets the tiniest bit of light through.

My 4k still looks reasonably happy though I am cursing myself for not getting a cheap 1k or 2k earlier because this looks like it'll take me a lot longer still.

Might do some more this evening.

I must confess... I have not taken out a stone and nor have I worked on this kamisori since Christmas day.

There's just too much work needed to be done to make it anything but a time consuming chore on the Norton 4k.

Considering multiple options like the Naniwa CS-101/510 which isa 120/1000 stone for £19, a Chosera 1k which is about £40 or an Eze-Lap 1200 for £45... maybe a double sided Eze-Lap 400/1200 or 600/1200 for £72. (For Reference, DMT D8C is £60-£65 and Atoma's are equally as scary priced.)... Something that's probably around the 1k mark for the razors and something which I can use for kitchen knives, as I really don't see me using the 1k much beyond the occasional new razor fix and a possible diamond plate could be used for lapping. Seen your taping videos and I believe that I can reset a bevel on any of my existing razors quickly with my 4k.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I am thinking a 2 stage attack

Step 1.
Some spine off the hone Circles at the 4k level probably start at about a 45° angle to eliminate the frown, then drop to maybe 1 spine width above the hone.. Both sides that should even up the edge and not dull it out totally... Go Slow and Test often on a flat surface..

If that works

Step 2.
I think I would try some creative (you will need to trim the tape to make this work) taping, since you can't add steel back I would not take more away trying to fix it.. Maybe start with two layers on the stamped side and 3 on the hump and see what that does using the Magic Marker test with a few laps... You might have to adjust up or down.. Watch the wear on the Tape too make sure you are shifting pressure correctly...

This may or may not work but at least you are not making it worse by practicing on it :)

If it works then you can decide it it is even possible to grind off enough steel to correct the bad wear and get the right geometry back without the tape :shrug:

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Step 1 Complete!

Step 2 worries me but I should have some time to work on it tomorrow. Hopefully it'll be a relatively easy thing from here on out.