Experimenting with Finishing Methods?

Hello all,

I just started honing (literally within the past week). I have had success achieving satisfactory sharpness based on the thumbpad test, hanging hair test, and shave tests with all three blades that I currently have (Ralf Aust 5/8, Filarmonica Novodur 13, and Wester Bros De-Fi).

My current process is somewhat of a hybrid based on affordability mainly:
-1K Ceramic Stone for bevel setting using the burr method
-5 micron lapping film
-3 micron lapping film

I do not advance to the next step until the bevel is 90+% clean from the prior step's scratches.

And finishing one of a number of ways:
-1 micron lapping film over paper
-adding lather to the above
-12-15K Imperia la Roccia with water
-following with Nano cloth loaded with CrOx, .125 CBN, or both

-I strop on my SRD Black Latigo (50-60 laps) prior to the shave regardless of the honing/finishing process.

I finished my Wester Bros yesterday using the 1 micron lapping film over paper, and noticed my shave was a bit harsh. While I could live with it for sure, I am curious if any of my other available methods would smooth it out a bit in comparison.

My question is: Would taking the blade through any of my other finishing options right now be an accurate representation of how that finishing option would treat the blade if I had not done the film over paper step, or will I have to somehow undo the finishing process prior to trying another method?

I am a tinkerer at heart, but my scientific background makes me want to isolate variables as much as feasible. Any guidance regarding accurate comparison of various finishing methods on the same blade without starting from scratch would be greatly appreciated.

Here's my newly acquired Wester Bros. I polished the blade a bit, but left the patina on the tang at the request of my wife, as she thought it may look cool. After doing it, I agree.
Attachment 191202Attachment 191201

Is that patina or bluing on the tang? Some older razors were blued. Looks nice regardless. I usually go through a standard regimen when testing stones. Bevel set normally on 2k synth, then 5k synth then natural finishing stone. If it's a particularly fine or not very fast finishing stone I sometimes also throw in an 8k and even 12k synth prior.

Very nice blade, sir and welcome!

Sorry if the question may seem obtuse, but it needs asking. Did you strop before shaving? How many laps?

It might be useful to edit the post and add how many strokes and what type your are using for each stage and finishing method, as well.

I'm sure guys with film honing experience will chime in soon.

Again, welcome :)

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Originally Posted by eKretz

Is that patina or bluing on the tang? Some older razors were blued. Looks nice regardless. I usually go through a standard regimen when testing stones. Bevel set normally on 2k synth, then 5k synth then natural finishing stone. If it's a particularly fine or not very fast finishing stone I sometimes also throw in an 8k and even 12k synth prior.

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I think it's patina, but a blued tang would be really cool. I will see if I can find a picture of a nicer De-Fi, to see if they were ever blued.

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Sorry if the question may seem obtuse, but it needs asking. Did you strop before shaving? How many laps?

It might be useful to edit the post and add how many strokes and what type your are using for each stage and finishing method, as well.

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Nice catch. I will certainly fix the above. I do 50-60 laps on my SRD black latigo prior to shaving. As for the other steps, I work until the bevel is 90+% clean of the prior step's scratches with no set lap count.

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Originally Posted by DocMartin0321

-1K Ceramic Stone for bevel setting using the burr method

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What is That ?????

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

What is That ?????

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I'm wondering that too...

are u taking some knife sharpening principles into razor honing?

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

What is That ?????

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That's what I was asking myself, but what I don't know can fit in >>>>the tardis

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

What is That ?????

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I believe that is when you hone outside. *groan*

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Originally Posted by JoelLewicki

I believe that is when you hone outside. *groan*

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Nooooooooooo that's the Brrrrrrrr Method :)


Soooooooo bad


To the OP we are by no means making fun of you we are all friends here and very bad Comics :)

The burr method was used and demonstrated by a guy that uses the name Slash McCoy on another forum (maybe this one too, not sure). You do passes on one side until you have a very mild but appreciable burr (or wire edge seen with a loupe) along the entire edge, then repeat on the other side. This is followed by alternating passes to even the whole thing out (maybe 20-50) until the blade easily shaves hair from arm or leg. It seems like a way to ensure that you are establishing a new bevel along the entire blade bilaterally. I saw him do it on a YouTube video. It has worked for me without issue so far.

So is there anything that I need to do to "reset" the edge prior to trying another finishing technique in order to know that the smoothness of the edge is a result of the "new" finishing method?

I guess another way of asking is:
Say I have a nice sharp edge using a set of Naniwas all the way up to 12K, but I just want to see what the edge would feel like on the face if it was finished on a Jnat. Would the edge need to be altered in any way prior to using the Jnat in order to be confident that the difference you are feeling on your face was because of the Jnat?

I would say that the only sure fire way of doing such is to take the razor back to bevel set. As long as your bevel setting is consistent and there are no extra variables you are performing during the bevel set during each finishing experiment. For example if you were using a chosera 1k to do a bevel set using the nortons to finish, I would continue to use the chosera even if you were finishing on a coticle.

I'm using the coticle as an example because it is the most common to use for the one hone honing method

That is what I would do to take out as many variables as possible

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Originally Posted by DocMartin0321

-1K Ceramic Stone for bevel setting using the burr method


and noticed my shave was a bit harsh. While I could live with it for sure, I am curious if any of my other available methods would smooth it out a bit in comparison.

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These two things go hand in hand besides anything else you do

Let me try and explain

Pick up a blade call it a "0"

Set the bevel correctly it becomes a "1"
Sharpen it and it is a "2"
Polish it and you have a "3"
Proper finishing gives you a "4"

Create a burr and you have a "-1"

Don't create a burr unless you are doing serious restoration, you are wasting steel and starting with a chewed up fragile edge....

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Originally Posted by JoelLewicki

I believe that is when you hone outside. *groan*

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Haha, no such thing as the Brrrrrr method down here in Tampa. I actually interviewed at VCU for residency, but it was 19 degrees with snow on the ground when I went. That was enough for me to drop it to the bottom of the list, even though it was an amazing program. We FL boys don't do cold too well.:D

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Originally Posted by DocMartin0321

I guess another way of asking is:
Say I have a nice sharp edge using a set of Naniwas all the way up to 12K, but I just want to see what the edge would feel like on the face if it was finished on a Jnat. Would the edge need to be altered in any way prior to using the Jnat in order to be confident that the difference you are feeling on your face was because of the Jnat?

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You could glass the edge just enough so that it would not shave arm hair and then re hone from there.

I used the burr method for setting bevels when I started. Now I would worry about that method causing chips when the burr is removed

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Originally Posted by rlmnshvstr8

I would say that the only sure fire way of doing such is to take the razor back to bevel set. As long as your bevel setting is consistent and there are no extra variables you are performing during the bevel set during each finishing experiment. For example if you were using a chosera 1k to do a bevel set using the nortons to finish, I would continue to use the chosera even if you were finishing on a coticle.

I'm using the coticle as an example because it is the most common to use for the one hone honing method

That is what I would do to take out as many variables as possible

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Ah, spoken like a scientist. I know you're right, but just didn't want to put in that much work. Lol

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Originally Posted by DocMartin0321

I guess another way of asking is:
Say I have a nice sharp edge using a set of Naniwas all the way up to 12K, but I just want to see what the edge would feel like on the face if it was finished on a Jnat. Would the edge need to be altered in any way prior to using the Jnat in order to be confident that the difference you are feeling on your face was because of the Jnat?

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Assuming you are using Slurry on the J-nat..... No

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

These two things go hand in hand besides anything else you do

Let me try and explain

Pick up a blade call it a "0"

Set the bevel correctly it becomes a "1"
Sharpen it and it is a "2"
Polish it and you have a "3"
Proper finishing gives you a "4"

Create a burr and you have a "-1"

Don't create a burr unless you are doing serious restoration, you are wasting steel and starting with a chewed up fragile edge....

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I only resorted to that method after trying unsuccessfully to achieve a suitably sharp edge using the method demonstrated by Lynn on YouTube. It looked pretty good with my 30x loupe afterward, but my experience is so limited that I don't really know what "good" is. :p I will probably glass the edge per bluesman's suggestion, and revisit the circle method now that I feel a bit more comfortable with the whole process.

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Originally Posted by DocMartin0321

I will probably glass the edge per bluesman's suggestion, and revisit the circle method now that I feel a bit more comfortable with the whole process.

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I would say that is a great idea :tu

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Originally Posted by DocMartin0321

I only resorted to that method after trying unsuccessfully to achieve a suitably sharp edge using the method demonstrated by Lynn on YouTube. It looked pretty good with my 30x loupe afterward, but my experience is so limited that I don't really know what "good" is. :p I will probably glass the edge per bluesman's suggestion, and revisit the circle method now that I feel a bit more comfortable with the whole process.

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Ahhh, having trouble with Lynn's method, resulted going to more drastic methods in order to see result. I really don't mean to if it sounds Patronizing.

I would say like you mentioned go back and work on those methods prescribed by Lynn. They do work it just takes patience and practice. In the bevel set there can be many factors that come into play if you are not seeing results. For example, not using enough pressure or too much pressure. Or slurry or no slurry. All these can effect results. But the key is time. I've heard of some honers taking a solid hour to get the bevel set. But taking that time makes it all worth it in the end.

So it seems that the culprit may be the bevel. I will redo it tonight and see how it goes. This razor was purchased with honing practice in mind after all. :hmmm:

I really appreciate all of the help everyone!:beer1:

One thing I can tell you with complete confidence

My De-Fi is close to my heart :p

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

One thing I can tell you with complete confidence

My De-Fi is close to my heart :p

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You know, during my research into the brand I read that you had and liked them. That fact played a big role in my placing a bid on the razor. :tu

I dulled the edge on my bottle of Frank's Red Hot, and started over. It took about 10 rounds of circles and x-strokes to get the edge to reliably pop hair from my arm. This is likely due to the lighter pressure I used this time on the 1K. I got it done though, then went through the 5 micron and 3 micron film, followed by some time on the Imperia with a light slurry, then water (followed by some bare leather stropping). It felt nice and sharp, but wasn't registering on the HHT, so I then stropped it on the nano cloth with CrOx then .125 CBN. Immediately, it was much keener and was probably HHT4. Looking forward to the shave tonight.

The bevel was probably not set, the first time.

Make sure your substrate for your film is flat, glass is not flat. Lap with a diamond plate or 320 grit Wet&Dry. It will also make your film stick to the plate better. Use Aluminum Oxide film.

Learn a foolproof way to set the bevel, looking straight down on the edge with magnification is the easiest, most foolproof way. Any shiny spot reflecting light is a chip or un-set edge, continue honing until, they are ALL gone.

Then spend extra time to remove all the deep 1K stria is removed with the 5um use lite pressure, the other progressions will go quickly.

Most probably your natural stone is going backwards, doubtful that it is 12K and just one partical larger than 1um will scratch the bevel and end in a chip, that will give you a harsh shave. Eliminate unknown variables until you have mastered honing, then experiment with naturals.

Hone on the 1um removing the 3um stria, then add the paper under the 1um and do 10 more weight of the blade laps to finish, just the edge.

Strop on Chrome Oxide and .125 um CBN misted with Distilled water both with very lite pressure.

Too much pressure honing or stropping will cause micro-chipping on the edge and a harsh shave.

Forget the hair test, they are completely unreliable and have nothing to do with how it will shave. It is a parlor trick, a cool one… but, judge your edges by your shaves.

Attachment 191319
The shiny spot are chips or unset bevel, the red is tape.

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Originally Posted by DocMartin0321

Haha, no such thing as the Brrrrrr method down here in Tampa. I actually interviewed at VCU for residency, but it was 19 degrees with snow on the ground when I went. That was enough for me to drop it to the bottom of the list, even though it was an amazing program. We FL boys don't do cold too well.:D

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I moved from St. Pete to Chicago 20 years ago. You get used to the change, and man do you learn to appreciate summer. 80 degrees and low humidity compared to Tampa.

Well, thanks to all of your help I had an amazing shave with the freshly re-honed blade. It was probably the first time that I had absolutely no burn with the alum after the shave.

I scrutinized the edge with my loupe before and after shaving, and it was far less effected by the shave than it was with the first hone. I remember looking at the edge after the first shave prior to re-honing, and the edge was ravaged. :dropjaw: This leads me to believe that Glen was correct in saying that the bevel using the burr method was fragile, and the current bevel is much more stable. :tu

I can't wait to find another old blade to bring back to life. Ah crap, I think I'm coming down with RAD. lol

Once you feel better and better with "Sneaking" up on the edge using lighter pressure and smoother stokes the edge will just continue to get more comfortable on your face..


Way to go :tu:

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Originally Posted by DocMartin0321

Haha, no such thing as the Brrrrrr method down here in Tampa. I actually interviewed at VCU for residency, but it was 19 degrees with snow on the ground when I went. That was enough for me to drop it to the bottom of the list, even though it was an amazing program. We FL boys don't do cold too well.:D

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Go Rams!!!!!!!!!