I can get razors very sharp but lately they have been harsh.

The last couple of full and half hollows I've honed have had this problem. They are extremely sharp. Enough to where they easily cut the tops off the fine hairs on my arm but when I go to shave with them they aren't very smooth. After the third or so shave they felt like a dream. The two razors of mine that had this problem recently are my Tennis and Dovo I just honed a week or so ago. All is well that ends well, right? Well I'm a bit curious about what causes such harshness off the hones. My progression is Norton 4k/8k, Naniwa 12k, and finally CrOx before stropping on linen and horse hide. I use Lynn's circle method on the Norton and about 10 strokes both ways on the Naniwa. After that I do about five strokes both way on the CrOx. Finally doing 20 strokes on linen and 60 on leather. Is there something that I'm doing wrong? Like I stated before, after multiple shaves they became very smooth. So I'm not too concerned about it. Just curious really if this is common and would like to absorb any knowledge you guys could lend me here. Thanks!

Have you checked it under mag. Make sure you don't have any micro chips. It can cause roughness.

I have a jewelers loupe. I think it's a 10x Bausch and Lomb. Maybe 20x. I can't remember but my bevels look fine under it. Before this comes up, I really make sure I use no pressure on the Naniwa and CrOx.

Try a few more more laps on the strop.

I have a razor here that I got in a group. Later tonight I was going hone it to 12k and see what the shave was like straight off of that. Before I got the Naniwa I was getting great shaves off just the Norton. At the same time I got the Naniwa though I started using CrOx so I never have tried to shave directly off of it. Will add more laps on the strop too. May do something like shave half my face immediately off the stone and then do something like 40 laps on linen and 100 on leather. Might be interesting to see the comparison.

Agree....give it 100 on the leather!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JTmke

Try a few more more laps on the strop.

---

Straightoverload: The first thing I would try is skipping the linen and double your stroke count on clean leather.

1. Is this "Harsh" feeling on all your razors or just specific ones ???
2. Keep in mind as "Keeness" changes you must also adjust the pressure and possibly the angle that you are shaving at..
one of the advantages of using a Finisher is that you should be able to back way down on the pressure which ultimately will give you a more comfortable shave..

It is not the shave that is making the edge smoother it is the additional stropping…

You either do not have a complete edge or the edge is chipping off the stones or Chrome Oxide.

When you say it looks fine, how are you looking at it, what do you see and when?

10 laps on the 12k may not be enough to polish 4K stria or completely set or re-set the bevel. Too much pressure on the 12K can also be an issue, the 12K can be aggressive.

It could also be the Chrome Oxide, many guys use way too much pressure, because they really want to, ”Polish” the bevel, but pressure will chip the edge, as can the substrate, a softer substrate will be less aggressive.

What is your Chrome Oxide on?
,
Eliminate the Chrome Oxide and see how it shaves, then eliminate the 12k and shave off the 8K. By a process of elimination you can find the problem, sometimes.

That stropping can make it shave,means you are very close. It is the difference between sharp and smooth. Sharp is easy…

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gssixgun

1. Is this "Harsh" feeling on all your razors or just specific ones ???
2. Keep in mind as "Keeness" changes you must also adjust the pressure and possibly the angle that you are shaving at..
one of the advantages of using a Finisher is that you should be able to back way down on the pressure which ultimately will give you a more comfortable shave..

---

I can't remember to be honest. These two are the only ones that really stood out. It's definitely not all of my razors though. I have had problems with pressure in the past. I start off alright but sometimes as the shave progresses I start using some pressure. I need to take a dry erase marker and write on my mirror before I shave. Something to remind myself constantly.

I have been using a SR since 1981 or so and still have to scold myself for using more pressure, it is a constant battle :(

Why I asked about the razors is that sometimes you have to accept the fact that certain razors do not react well with certain stones :shrug:

Keep working it maybe try a light slurry on the 12k to start with then dilute out basically mess with it and eliminate variables as you go as mentioned above...

CrOx is on a short, narrow and very thick leather strop. I must emphasize that I don't use pressure. When I get to the Naniwa and CrOx I'm only guiding the razor with my fingertips. I usually look right at the very edge of the razor with a loupe and look for flat spots that I can't see by eye. Then I look at the side against a dark background to see it at a different angle.

I totally agree with more stropping on a freshly honed razor, also razors typically mellow out after a shave or two which is probably due to all the stropping

Congratulations this is a good thing. I think for some time the goal after you start honing your own razors is and should be to get the razor as sharp as you can. Then with experience you reach the point you have, now its not about sharp its about comfort as your sharpness goal has been achieved.
I honestly think this is why I prefer my Illinois 827 strop post honing over my other strops. If you feel that strop it has almost an imperceptible, but definitely there, slight texture. I really think it is a bit of a more aggressive strop (if there is such a thing) than my preferred pre shave strop which is a 3"Red Latigo.
Whatever the case 50 linen and 100 leather on the 827 takes my razor to a nice combo of sharp and smooth on virtually all the razors i hone. When I use the red latigo or my illinois 50 or any other of my strops post honing they just dont give me that comfort. You answer very well could be more stropping or more on thee linen or maybe try the other side of the leather. I know many dont do that any more but maybe work that in. Do 50 on the rough side of the leather and 100 on the smooth and see how that goes.
Just some thoughts.

Chrome Oxide should give a finished edge more polish and comfort, the same thing that stropping on leather will do.

So if your leather is finishing your edged more, your edge is not that smooth after the Chrome Oxide and possibly after the 12K.

Is your Chrome Oxide quality razor paste?

Chrome Oxide that is made for polishing metal can contain other abrasives, designed to cut more quickly, or your strop could be contaminated with any of a number of things, like dust, both will leave a harsh edge.

If so try pasting a piece of cardboard with your paste, to eliminate a contaminated strop as an issue.

My CrOx was in a bar form. Don't remember from whence it came. I will try your suggestions after I attempt to shave without CrOx in the equation. I appreciate all the help!

I got distracted by other razors and have yet to do what I was going to a few posts back. I have just honed up a NOS Dorko to 12k and it's cutting leg hair like a champ. At least I'm 90% sure it's NOS. It had no bevel on it whatsoever and absolutely no hone wear to be seen. Little tag was still there too. It has a very similar grind and overall shape as the Dovo I had some trouble with. Tonight I will shave half my face right off the stone and then do 100 laps on leather and shave the rest.

I just received a razor from a user here that was honed on a JNat immediately before sending it to me. I don't think I've ever experienced something so amazing. It's like heaven compacted into blade form. I could almost hear angels singing as I shaved. I swear there were tears in my eyes when I got done. Not sad tears but happy tears. I've NEVER experienced a shave like that off a synthetic stone. It almost tempted me to put my Naniwa up for sale and go buy one. May still do that once I get this worked all out.

Chrome Oxide is not that expensive around 10 bucks, If it is not 99percent pure, it may be your problem.

Buy some good razor quality Chrome Oxide, SPR, Hand America or Kremer Pigments

Save the other stuff for knives or tools.

Yes a good edge is very nice and something that is attainable with the proper tools and a bit of practice.

CrOx is probably causing the temporary irritation. Strop more after honing process.

Update! I went ahead and did my little test. Bad news and goods news. Straight off the hone the shave sucked. Sharp but harsh. This was sort of expected. I went back and stropped 40 times on linen and 100 on leather and the shave was pretty good. Not amazing but certainly passable. I honestly can't tell a single difference between not using CrOx and using it. On my last pass of the shave I decided to A&B it with the one that was honed on a JNat. The JNat honed blade immediately put me into a deep blissful state and then mine ripped me out of it. They are not that far apart but the difference is definitely there and noticeable. So what have we learned from this? Not much. A few different things could be taking place here.
1. I suck at honing.
2. My expectations are too high.
3. Too many variables therefor any results are inconclusive.
4. I'm honestly getting the most out of my Naniwa but I just don't like the shave from it.
5. O'Doyle rules and so do JNats.

Probably a combination of all of them to be honest. Next step I take will be to probably try to get a hold of a JNat and try it myself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StraightOverload

Probably a combination of all of them to be honest. Next step I take will be to probably try to get a hold of a JNat and try it myself.

---

2 things might happen here.
1/ You start a whole new learning curve.
2/ you luck out & everything falls into place.

Don't know if this helps but if I only had a 12k & some CrO & Fe pastes, I could shave happily, even knowing I can get 1-2% improvement with Jnats.
Also the 20k Suehiro blurs the line between Jnat & Synthetic for smoothness. It is much easier to buy a good synthetic than a good Jnat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by onimaru55

2 things might happen here.
1/ You start a whole new learning curve.
2/ you luck out & everything falls into place.

Don't know if this helps but if I only had a 12k & some CrO & Fe pastes, I could shave happily, even knowing I can get 1-2% improvement with Jnats.
Also the 20k Suehiro blurs the line between Jnat & Synthetic for smoothness. It is much easier to buy a good synthetic than a good Jnat.

---

Alright. Talk to me about pastes. What do you use them on, how many laps, etc. It's probably best to try the cheaper solution before shelling out the dough for a JNat. I'm eying a Shuobudani type 100 right now. I'd love for you to talk me out of it! It'd sure help the wallet.

I'm eying a Shuobudani type 100 right now.

Yea…. Don’t think that’s the answer.

Take the time to learn the stones you have… perhaps meet up and get some hands on time with an accomplished honer.

Adding more variables is not the answer.

Someone… once said something to the effect “a more expensive hone will not make you a better honer”.

What's wrong with them? Please excuse my naivety. I've read that they were good Jnats to get your feet wet with.

Nothing.

As said, just a whole new learning curve and much more difficult to learn that what you already have.

I'd like to reiterate the reason for this thread as it almost seems like it's been lost due to me being unclear and all over the place. As I reread it some things seem quite unclear. Lets assess this from a unified and fresh view point.

I've honed quiet a few razors to date and most have shaved pretty good. Just as good as others I didn't hone. I recently ran into "trouble" with a Tennis and Dovo razor. The were harsh off the hone even after the initial stropping on CrOx and leather. A couple shaves later they were shaving like butter. I came here to post about this for a couple reasons. Mainly it just for a different viewpoint and some insight on this and as to whether or not it was a common occurrence. All of my razors don't end up this way. Just these two here recently. Yesterday, I got a razor from a member. It was honed on a JNat just before sending it to me. The shave was unprecedented. I haven't experienced that level of smoothness before. While my usual honing jobs are decently smooth, they are not that smooth. Which led to me trailing off about JNats and such. I got a Dorko a little while back. I just now decided to use it as sort of a test because it was very similar to my Dovo. Fully knowing there were way too many variables to draw anything from it. Straight off the hones it was harsh but then when added more stropping time than usual it was smooth. Not as smooth as the JNat honed blade though but for all intensive purposes smooth. Which brings me back to the first two razors I spoke of. The Dorko was far beyond them is smoothness. Originally this thread was to assess two razors that stood out from the ones I normally hone.

I truly thank you for sticking by this thread from the start and providing all the help.

So is it the razors, or the honer.

How many razors have you honed?

Post some photos of the razors as close up of the edges as possible.

With the stones you have you should be getting excellent edges, so the hones are not at fault.

The hones are lapped recently, right?

How about I send you one of my razors to see in person. Would you be up for that? I'd love for someone else to evaluate one of my edges. I feel that would get us a little bit further.

Sure, PM me. I can take some photos of it and post them so other following the thread can learn also.

Marty

A few thoughts, if everything so far has honed well except this razor it could be the steel. I've had a few of those. Also check for a frown, even a very slight one will give you much honing grief.

I'm going to PM Marty here is a sec but I'm going to explain my thoughts in hopes of making them clear.

I think the razors I hone are pretty good but I've never had anyone else try them. Unfortunately the sources I compare them to besides the one that was honed on the JNat aren't very reputable. So what may be good to me, may be terrible for someone more experienced. This will hopefully give us a better starting point to build on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StraightOverload

I'm going to PM Marty here is a sec but I'm going to explain my thoughts in hopes of making them clear.

I think the razors I hone are pretty good but I've never had anyone else try them. Unfortunately the sources I compare them to besides the one that was honed on the JNat aren't very reputable. So what may be good to me, may be terrible for someone more experienced. This will hopefully give us a better starting point to build on.

---

I'm think you misunderstood what was clear to me in Marty's post. He is not ctiticising the Jnat, he is saying it is not just buying the stone that will improve your honing.
An analogy would be you can drive a Ferrari but you are not Michael Schumaker.

strop, strop, strop linen, strop,strop,strop,strop, leather