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Hello, gents,
I have decided to learn how to refresh my razors. I have a nice Swaty barber's hone that is perfect and ready to use. Razors were professionally honed, but they pull quite a bit so I thought I'd try my hand at refreshing them rather than sending them out again.
My question is: first strop, then hone--or vice-versa? Or does it matter?
Any other advice would be appreciated. BTW, razors are a beefy W&B wedge (I believe it is a 1") and another W&B hollow ground.
Thanks
Tom
Hone then strop.
I was just watching this video a couple minutes ago. It's a great place to start.https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=R_uWwbmQlUM
Yes it matters. Stropping is done to align the edge. Honing is done to remove steel from the edge. Hone, then strop, then shave.
So how long ago were they honed, and were they honed with tape?
How have you maintained them ?
Are you using paste with your strop, if so what is the strop substrate and the paste?
Generally you would strop to maintain and if stropped properly a razor can be maintained for several months at a high level of keenness.
But if you are new to stropping, it is not unusual for a novice stropper to do more damage than good.
One miss stroke can roll the edge and then it will need a touch up honing unless the damage is extensive and lower grits are needed.
So first look at the edge with magnification, straight down on the edge and see if you see any shiny spots. They are chips or rolled edge. What you see will determine the proper course of action.
thanks for that video, but now i must get a new barbers hone.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Leatherstockiings
Hi, Euclid, the razors were honed about 2 years ago (if I remember correctly), but I have hardly used them at all, probably no more than three times each. The reason is that they still pulled when they arrived from the honemeister. After each "attempted" shave, I have given them about 10 laps on the strop (no paste), dried them, added a thin coat of oil and stored them in a wooden box filled with rice. Naturally, I would also strop before each subsequent shave--although, as I said, I have used them very seldom.
The edges *look* fine, but the razors just wouldn't perform. I had to finish each shave with another razor--a Filarmonica that was sold "shave-ready" and that indeed was that. I have probably had over 20 great shaves with the Filarmonica in the last year or so, and I was able to maintain it in tiptop shape by just stropping it before each use.
The main reason I was asking about the strop/barber-hone sequence is: do you hone an already-aligned edge (which means strop first), as may seem logical to a first-time honer (like I am), or do you hone first--and most of all, why?
The reason I ask is because, stropping is where most new guys have an issue and can damage an edge with one stroke.
So it sounds like your razors may just need stropping, but you have to be able to strop properly.
The other issue is if it was taped when honed and you use a barber hone you may not hone to the edge with just a few laps.
The first thing I would do is look straight down on the edge with magnification. Any shiny spots are where the bevels are not meeting and will require honing and can possibly be corrected with a barber hone.
If the edge is clean, just strop it about 100 laps, Use light pressure just the weight of the blade, keep the spine on the strop at all times and stop before you flip the razor.
Some photos of the razors may help, not all razors sold as shave ready are and if stropped, an edge can be damaged before the first shave.
Unfortunately, this is not uncommon. it is the Catch 22 of Straight Shaving, you have to strop to maintain a razor and you have to learn to strop before you can strop to maintain your razor.
Before you try honing the razor, strop it and shave with it again. Try changing your angle, too much of an angle can cause pulling as well. Good luck.
Will do as you guys say--although if I had a faulty stropping technique, the Filarmonica would have also become dulled--also because I've used and stropped it at least 20 times.
Will give it a go and let you know.
No… not really, it just takes one stroke or too much pressure to damage an edge, usually lifting the spine at the end of a stroke before stopping.
The spine should never leave the strop, stop and flip without leaving the strop, go slow and use little pressure.
Too much pressure is also an edge killer.
Take your hand on a flat surface and run it as you would a razor. Where is the pressure? It is naturally more on the trailing edge than the leading edge. If you add more downward pressure, it is compounded at the trailing edge… the razor’s edge.
A razor edge is very fragile and it does not take much to damage or ruin it.
As I said, this is very common...
(BTW, I never lift the spine while stropping--that's the element of the razor that I always keep in contact with the strop. I just pivot it on the spine, so by the time the edge makes contact with the leather, the razor is already well in motion, the edge always following the spine. As for pressure, I keep a bit less than the weight of my hand against a strop that I keep approximately 75% taut.)
So, I gave one of the razors about 50 passes on the strop, and it was still pulling. So I passed it about 10 times on each side on the hone, then stropped it again. Pulls a little less, but is still a far cry from my *good* razor. What to do?
It may just need a lot more laps. Especially if your skipping any linen stropping and just going to the leather. If more stropping doesn't make it feel better than something is wrong.
Just make sure that you clean the blade between using stones, pastes and strop you do not want cross contamination of different grits on the strop or other honing media.
Beyond that, like everyone has said, rather start off fine with the strop and then work your way up to more abrasive media, it is the way I progress, first pastes then if that does not work finishing hone, up to the lower grits to do some more work if required. My reasoning behind this is I am lazy, rather not have to go to far and then do more work to remove stria from the edge.....
So, if you look under a magnifier, is there a way to tell if the edge is rolled vs chipped? Is it longer bright areas vs spots?
If it is determined that it is rolled, what level of grit should you use to hone? I'm assuming that a pasted strop won't fix it, is that correct?
How do you know how many passes to take on the hone? Do 10 and then check?
I have one blade with a curved edge (near wedge). Not sure if I'm not quite stopping right to keep the heel and toe sharp or if it is possible rolling a bit. Seems a tiny bit bright at each end, but nothing that a pin test catches on.
The most common way an edge gets rolled is lifting the spine at the end of a stroke trying to imitate the stropping stroke seen on TV and the movies.
Keep the spine on the strop, stop and flip.
Or at the flip where the razor is still moving forward when the edge slaps the leather and bites the strop, again thank you movie stropping.
Or too much pressure, the edge is very fragile. The pin test is not a definitive test for a rolled edge, when the roll breaks off it becomes a chip.
Looking down on the edge it could look like series of small chips or a jagged shiny long chip where it has broken off or just the roll is reflecting.
How to repair it depends on how deep the chip or the roll is.
With small chips, maybe you could strop it out with an aggressive pasted strop, but if you suspect rolling chances are it is more than just one area and you will want to build a whole new edge.
You can go backwards in grits until you fine enough grit to bring the bevels back together, buy really you are probably better off building a new bevel from a 1 or 4k. In the long run it is faster than fighting a crumbling edge.
And if you have chips, no matter the cause, they have to be removed to get a straight comfortable edge. It could very well be the bevel was not completely set when honed, not uncommon with smiling edges.