Just to clarify

After spending a little time honing razors, and getting too hung up on the HHT I think I have finally found the a place for this in my routine.

It won't show you anything that a shave test won't indicate more clearly

However it is useful for me in this way and I hope that this will make it easier for folks starting out to understand the limitations of this test.

Hair comes in many different sizes, coarser hair will pass a razor that may provide a terrible shave. Alternately if you are attempting this test with an extremely fine hair, while a razor that passes this test will undoubtably be extremely sharp, failure with a fine hair does not exclude a razor from being a good shaver.

Just to add to that point your own facial hair will change what type of keenness you are looking for.

Also there are a couple things that may be going on with the edge that passes the hht. What you are hoping for in an hht is to demonstrate the the bevel is thin enough to wedge itself between the layers of hair (if you look at a hair under extreme magnification it you can see them clearly)

on the other hand a false positive for this test may well be due to serrations on the edge.



So at least for myself I use this test with my own arm hair as a prerequisite that a blade must pass before I finish honing it, but not as a final test.




This is how it has worked for me thus far,
Has anyone here gotten a great shave off of a razor that couldn't pass an HHT (given a reasonably coarse hair)?

Cheers- Sailor

I rely on thumb nail and thumb pad test, and an eye loupe to check my progress. Then I shave, if it's not comfortable, it's back to the hones. I've never used HHT, bald as a baby.....

Can you please define "Medium Coarse"




Does that one sentence explain the weakness of using the HHT to Describe or Define the shave readiness of an edge...


or

All Sharpness Tests used for honing, must be calibrated by the person doing the honing, for the person doing the honing :)

I must be tired because I can't understand what SailorJ said?
Huh? :thinking:

Heck maybe I misunderstood too :)

I've been honing for about a year - and consider myself a noob at the art/science.

The results have run the gamut from back to the hones for a few, very good results for many and once and a while it comes together so well I am in Honing/Shaving heaven.

Also have what hair left on my head cut to a #2 or shorter...(I think that's 2mm)

So what I have been using in addition to the loupe and thumb pad is "tree-topping" arm hair.
It's not as course as beard hair, but I've found if pass 1/2 to 3/4" - 12-20mm over my arm with the blade parallel to the skin - and the blade is covered in little clippings things are going to go ok.

I noticed on one of the video of the Dovo plant tour that the person honing was plucking a hair off of what looked like one of those brushes that the barber uses to whisk off the clippings at the end of your haircut. I may pick one up to try it.

And interested to see the other responses...

It was meant to describe the weakness, or limitations.

And I guess just to outline yet again for people like myself that got razors to pass an hht that still shaved like crap. That the hht at least in the beginning coincides with a great shaving edge, but is not causal.

As far as I have seen the best indication that I am honing correctly is how the edge undercuts the water.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SailorJ

As far as I have seen the best indication that I am honing correctly is how the edge undercuts the water.

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Bingo !!!!

"Watching the Wave" as I like to describe it is a really good indicator ... :tu

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Originally Posted by MJC

I noticed on one of the video of the Dovo plant tour that the person honing was plucking a hair off of what looked like one of those brushes that the barber uses to whisk off the clippings at the end of your haircut. I may pick one up to try it.

And interested to see the other responses...

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This is aproximately what I meant when I said medium coarse hair. It is definitely individual to the person if you are using your own hair. So I should not have included that bit in my description.

I think I'm just conviluding the point that I was trying to clarify for people just getting into honing :gaah:

Now I think I understand why when I researched it many said that hht was not a good indication of shave readiness. I was hoping to go more in detail, but too much of this test is reliant on things that can't easily be repeated from person to person.

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Originally Posted by Chevhead

I must be tired because I can't understand what SailorJ said?
Huh? :thinking:

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I was a little jumbled up on that first attempt. Maybe the edit expresses what I was hoping for a little clearer :)

The limits of the HHT for me are based on the hair itself. You need to be using the same hair every time, and I ask my barber for some when a suitable client gets their hair cut. It needs to be dark, not colored, and straight.

Even so, there's enough variability in hair to make a point or more difference in HHT from hair to hair, so I always use 2-3 if there's any difficulty performing the test. A hair can also vary a little along the shaft it seems.

But overall it works for me. I also use it as a secondary bevel set test. My primary test off the bevel setter is the cherry tomato test, but I generally use a fairly coarse suita after the bevel setter, probably 4-6k synth equivalent. Off this suita, I palm strop just enough to clean the bevel and the edge should cut hair cleanly without pulling or extraordinary effort. If it does not, the bevel is not set properly.

Using the HHT this way also allows you to test very small parts of the edge, for example where a chip used to be (hope you marked the location) and the ends of the edge right out to the last mm.

The OP is correct about the weaknesses, but with experience and with consistent hair it can also be useful. I've never had an edge fail the test and shave well, but I have had edges that passed but weren't smooth. I actually am looking at the behavior of the hair as it contacts the edge, does it pop immediately, require some force or lateral movement, split, hang, etc.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Steve

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

or

All Sharpness Tests used for honing, must be calibrated by the person doing the honing, for the person doing the honing :)

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I think this sums it up nicely. What more needs to be said?

The best way to test an edge for a rookie like myself is a jewelers loupe. If you bring the edges together at the 1k level, you'll likely get a nice edge.

I just try shaving with the edge. If it isn't right, back to the hones!:gaah:

The HHT is indeed quite personal. I use my own hair, as in: my hair that I cut a few years back. So it's from the same batch and relatively homogenous. The hair is relatively thin, and what I have found is that I cannot get a comfortable shave with an edge that does not at least split a hair across its length before stropping along the entire edge (mind you, I hone on a coticule pretty much exclusively - stropping makes quite a difference).

I have had irritation shaving with edges that cut through one of those hairs cleanly. For me, a certain result (splitting hairs before stropping) will tell me the that the edge will have no problems cutting through my stubble. However, it does not tell how comfortable that edge is.

"Passing" my personal HHT is the minimum requirement for me. I will not even consider shaving with an edge that doesn't. I have shaved with those edges often enough to know that they just won't do (for me).

When honing and testing a razor for me when the blade comes off the last hone I strop then go to my wife's hair brush. (There's more hair on my back than my head) My wife is blond with fine hair. I use a the longest one I can find and hang it . just let it dangle. if the blade starts cutting it from the end and keeps cutting it as I go up then I try it on my face. Usually if I get the angle right the shave is smooth. if I don't get the angle right well lets just say it's not quite as smooth. But I try to get it to cut the hair before I try it out on my face. Some day when I get more experience with the stones and blades I may not have to go to these extremes. I have a couple of blades that were honed by one of the best and I compare my edges to there's. some day I hope there the same but until then I'll keep on keeping on.

lopping hairs only tells me the edge is sharp
the shave test is the only test to tell if it is SMOOTH

I have had many a blade lop hair no problem, but felt like shaving with a hacksaw blade,

this taught me:
1. sharp does not always equal smooth or comfortable shaves
2. to lighten up on the hone pressure once the bevel was set & definitely for the final grits,
3. some blades are just angry (a couple of Germans I have found) and need extra attention with feather weight then extra stropping to smooth their edge.
4. all get even better after several uses

This is JMHO & YMMV

I use my wife's hair for the hht but find it varies depending on what she has used in her hair, conditioner, tonics etc. I use the tree topping test as a second test but only use them for a idea of if it is sharp enough to shave with. I use it to shave then a let this tell me of the edges true condition. For me all the test are only indicators that it might be on track.

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Originally Posted by Substance

lopping hairs only tells me the edge is sharp
the shave test is the only test to tell if it is SMOOTH

I have had many a blade lop hair no problem, but felt like shaving with a hacksaw blade,

this taught me:
1. sharp does not always equal smooth or comfortable shaves
2. to lighten up on the hone pressure once the bevel was set & definitely for the final grits,
3. some blades are just angry (a couple of Germans I have found) and need extra attention with feather weight then extra stropping to smooth their edge.
4. all get even better after several uses

This is JMHO & YMMV

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This pretty much mirrors my own experience, right down to a couple of angry Germans which are getting better with time.

However, given a knowledge of the particular hone and razor, the HHT will tell me if I'm going to have a good edge provided I've done my job on the rocks.

Cheers, Steve