How I hone razors

I've honed quite a few by now, and come up with a routine that is pretty much foolproof for me. I thought I'd share it with you. I will not claim it works for everything, but it does for me. I hone all newly made razors, and only those. I don't hone or restore on commission anymore. This means that I always start with a razor sans bevel, that the geometry of the razor is correct and unspoiled, and that the bevels will be narrow.

I use the 3 same stones for everything: Norton 1000 /4000, Norton 4000/8000, Shapton on glass 16K.
I use my old DMT325 for raising slurry.
I use good quality electricians tape on all new razors.

So, I wash the razor and dry it to make sure the tape will stick.
I soak the stones beforehand, and then raise a thick slurry on the 1000K side. Add a drop of water, and then hone until the razor passes the thumbnail test. I may need to re-raise slurry halfway, depending on just how fast things go. Then I flip the stone to the 4000K side, and raise slurry again. I hone for a couple dozen laps on that side as well. There is no set number. 20 to 30 laps should be fine if the razor passed the thumbnail test previously.

Then I remove the tape, gently wash the razor with detergent to remove glue and slurry before it can scratch the surface, and tape again.

Take the 4000 / 8000 and hone on the 4000 side without slurry and no pressure. The fact that the tape is new changes the angle a fraction so no pressure is important. The bevel will really polish up near the edge. 10 to 20 laps is fine. Then flip to the 8000 side and hone for 20 laps. Then 5 more laps on the 4000 and another 20 to 30 on the 8000 side. And finally, 10 laps on the 16K. At that point I verify that the razor pops arm hair effortless and without resistance. At that point I will shave and get a good shave test without fail. During honing I don't test anything except the thumbnail test.

I like using the 1000/ 4000 as a workhorse with a lot of slurry, as it means that absolute flatness is not an issue. The 4000 / 8000 is really flat. The 1000 / 4000 is flat enough and gets lapped without checking for flatness. It also wears thinner a lot quicker than the 4000 / 8000. The 16K never gets lapped. 10 laps without pressure is not going to hurt it.

I once tried to use my DMT325 for bevel setting but found that the 1000K with thick slurry was much faster. And I tried the norton 220 but found that it is the single most useless hone ever conceived. It dishes out so quickly it's next to useless as a bevel setter for new razors, and the grit leaves really deep scratch marks. I threw it away.

Does the use of slurry realy make that much of a difference on the 1k?
I think I will need to try it on the Nani 1k for bevel setting and see if I can tell the difference
I run a very similar system minus the slurry But with the nani 1k then Norton 4/8 with the Nani 12k finish

I think the slurry on the 1k probably gives a bit more cut and helps remove minor chips more effectively than with just water. I normally set bevels on a Shapton 1000GS but occasionally resort to a King 1000 with a synthetic nagura that gives it a bit of extra cutting power. Like Bruno I then progress through the Norton 4k/8k but I'm happy to finish on a Shapton 12000 rather than a 16. I have recently been trialling a Norton barber hone as a final touch - it seems to give a very nice edge, no wonder people pay a lot for them!

Yes, the difference is staggering. If you raise a thick slurry and then add a bit of water, the stone becomes a LOT more abrasive while still not creating deep scratches.

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Originally Posted by Maladroit

I think the slurry on the 1k probably gives a bit more cut and helps remove minor chips more effectively than with just water. I normally set bevels on a Shapton 1000GS but occasionally resort to a King 1000 with a synthetic nagura that gives it a bit of extra cutting power. Like Bruno I then progress through the Norton 4k/8k but I'm happy to finish on a Shapton 12000 rather than a 16. I have recently been trialling a Norton barber hone as a final touch - it seems to give a very nice edge, no wonder people pay a lot for them!

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The glass stones only come in 8K and 16K iirc. I bought it second hand to give it a try and liked it as much as my nakayama which I pretty much haven't used since.

When setting the bevel, how much pressure to you use?

And if you encounter any geometry problems, how do you address them to ensure an even bevel?

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Originally Posted by Bruno

The glass stones only come in 8K and 16K iirc. I bought it second hand to give it a try and liked it as much as my nakayama which I pretty much haven't used since.

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That's right, my 12000 Shapton Pro is a ceramic, rather than glass - and a very nice stone it is. Although in the glass series they also make an intermediate set at 2000 and 4000, as well as several coarser stones, including my 1000. I wish I could afford them all :-)

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Originally Posted by Phrank

When setting the bevel, how much pressure to you use?

And if you encounter any geometry problems, how do you address them to ensure an even bevel?

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not much pressure at all. If the slurry is thick, I just use enough pressure to maintain a firm contact between the razor and the stone. As for geometry problems: I only hone razors that I created myself. Should I discover a geometry issue, I go back to grinding.

However, These days that doesn't happen anymore. With heavy wedges I may establish a bevel before I start the final polishing, just to make sure I don't need to go back to the grinder after after spending the time to polish and make scales.

Usually however, I verify the geometry during grinding by putting the razor on a flat steel plate. I check that on both sides the spine and edge make good contact as if I was doing a rolling X. All the while I grind it thinner and thinner, checking the grind and correcting things as I go along. And for most razors, I finish the entire thing before it touches a hone for the first time. It's just too much waste of time imo.

Very clear and concise! Simple yet effective. Down to lapping frequency! This could be a sticky! :D

The only reason not to make it a sticky is this: "I hone all newly made razors, and only those. I don't hone or restore on commission anymore. This means that I always start with a razor sans bevel, that the geometry of the razor is correct and unspoiled, and that the bevels will be narrow."

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Originally Posted by bill3152

Very clear and concise! Simple yet effective. Down to lapping frequency! This could be a sticky! :D

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Well it COULD be one! It is very simple and there are many variables of course. I just wanted to compliment the OP for the post. Stickies and other is up to the fine people who are well qualified to make those decisions!

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Originally Posted by Bruno

not much pressure at all. If the slurry is thick, I just use enough pressure to maintain a firm contact between the razor and the stone. As for geometry problems: I only hone razors that I created myself. Should I discover a geometry issue, I go back to grinding.

However, These days that doesn't happen anymore. With heavy wedges I may establish a bevel before I start the final polishing, just to make sure I don't need to go back to the grinder after after spending the time to polish and make scales.

Usually however, I verify the geometry during grinding by putting the razor on a flat steel plate. I check that on both sides the spine and edge make good contact as if I was doing a rolling X. All the while I grind it thinner and thinner, checking the grind and correcting things as I go along. And for most razors, I finish the entire thing before it touches a hone for the first time. It's just too much waste of time imo.

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If the razor is not laying flat on the steel plate, in a case of an old vintage razor for instance, would the building of slurry aid or assist in correcting the geometry of the razor?

Agreed, good post....just that the OP is a razor maker.....leaves a lot of us out.

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Originally Posted by bill3152

Well it COULD be one! It is very simple and there are many variables of course. I just wanted to compliment the OP for the post. Stickies and other is up to the fine people who are well qualified to make those decisions!

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I am a believer in slurry on everything

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Originally Posted by cubancigar2000

I am a believer in slurry on everything

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Leathery, oily strop slurry is the best

I even have use a mini squeegee that came with a cellphone case (for screen cover) that I use to squeegee off my DMT onto my hone when I have finished raising the slurry.

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Originally Posted by cubancigar2000

I am a believer in slurry on everything

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Leathery, oily strop slurry is the best

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You have clearly entered into the highest realm of the Professional Slurrier....have you tried adding beef marrow yet?

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Originally Posted by cubancigar2000

I am a believer in slurry on everything

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It's probably bad on a sandwich....... But on stones yes!!! lol

Reuben on rye, hold the slurry.

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Originally Posted by rodb

It's probably bad on a sandwich....... But on stones yes!!! lol

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Great write up!

I’ve ground a few razors out of old files and have sort of settled on a very similar routine.

When I think I’ve finished grinding I put magic marker on the spine and edge and take the razor to a Norton 4K with slurry (raised using a well-worn atoma 400) to set and check the geometry. So far I’ve always been too eager to hit the hones and had to take each razor back to the grinder to remove a bit more metal.

Once I’m satisfied that I’ve actually finished grinding I set the bevel with 2 bits of tape on the spine and a heavily slurred Norton 1K. The thumb pad test and the ability to shave arm hairs tell me that I’m finished on this stone.

I then remove one layer of tape and use the 1K with slurry until there is no secondary bevel (magic marker and a 10X loupe are used to check).

I repeat the above with no tape.

I then progress through 4K with slurry> 4K with water> 8K with slurry> 8K with water> CrOx paddle strop.

The tape really helps with setting the bevel, I tried without tape but had trouble maintain the constant (slight) edge pressure needed to remove enough metal to set the bevel.

I use no tape for final honing as my razors are defiantly not art works that warrant protected spines and the hone wear gives me feedback on the consistency of my grinding.

I would throw my Norton 220 out as well, if it wasn’t stuck to my 1K.

I have a love/hate relationship with the 1K, I don’t particularly like the feel of it but it’s the only stone I have that can do its job. Thankfully the slurry really speeds up the process and the 4K with slurry has plenty of horsepower to take over when ready so I tolerate the 1K (at least for now).

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Originally Posted by Phrank

If the razor is not laying flat on the steel plate, in a case of an old vintage razor for instance, would the building of slurry aid or assist in correcting the geometry of the razor?

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A razor only lays flat if it is absolutely straight. 99% of what I make is smiling. With smiling razors, the one and only important fact is that when you roll the razor from heel to toe, the contact points of the edge and the spine should both roll together. The steel plate isn't for honing, in case I wasn't clear. It is just a known flat object for showing me how the razor will make contact during honing.

Based on how I see the razor behaving, I adjust the grind to gradually align the edge and the spine as the edge get thinner, so that the razor will hone correctly with a rolling X.

If you mean old vintage Solingen ('straight' razors), the yes, slurry would assist because it would set the bevel more aggressively, though it would of course be a bit un-even. vintage Sheffield is usually smiling, and as such would never be flat on the hone to begin with.

Slurry on Nortons was a honing life changing event for me. At the stage of struggling to feel, agonizing over whether I was laying flat thru the X pattern or lifting slightly, plus all the other worries someone in the OCD spectrum can get out of most anything, SLURRY kicked me up a step.

To anyone with Nortn 1k 4k 8k that hasn't done it yet, rub that 4k on the 1k and build a little color and see how it feels. You'll be rubbing them all against each other before the day is out...

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Originally Posted by WW243

Agreed, good post....just that the OP is a razor maker.....leaves a lot of us out.

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That is why I mentioned it explicitly, because it is important. What I do works perfectly within the context in which the method is used.
It is easy for me to state that the geometry is correct, because I only hone razors that I've made, and if the geometry wasn't correct, I wouldn't be honing them :)

Problematic razors may need a different approach. That is one of the reasons I don't hone or restore as a service anymore. I want all time to go to the fun part of making razors. Plus I don't want to be responsible for other people's stuff.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

The glass stones only come in 8K and 16K iirc. I bought it second hand to give it a try and liked it as much as my nakayama which I pretty much haven't used since.

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Originally Posted by Maladroit

That's right, my 12000 Shapton Pro is a ceramic, rather than glass - and a very nice stone it is. Although in the glass series they also make an intermediate set at 2000 and 4000, as well as several coarser stones, including my 1000. I wish I could afford them all :-)

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:brunoisright
Finally get to use that smiley.

Just to clarify all the Shaptons are modern ceramic style stones. Just that the GS range are stuck to hardened glass.
They come in a variety of grit ranges, even a 3k in the GS line. Rumour is Shapton is dropping the GS range. Would be a shame.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

:brunoisright
Finally get to use that smiley.

Just to clarify all the Shaptons are modern ceramic style stones. Just that the GS range are stuck to hardened glass.
They come in a variety of grit ranges, even a 3k in the GS line. Rumour is Shapton is dropping the GS range. Would be a shame.

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Just saw this and sent off an email to Shapton USA - the reply:

"absolutely false"

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Yes, the difference is staggering. If you raise a thick slurry and then add a bit of water, the stone becomes a LOT more abrasive while still not creating deep scratches.

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Honed a nice razor last night...had trouble setting the bevel (I'm still under 10 razors in..), remembered this thread, raised a slurry on my Nani 1k, set to it, and WOW!

Beautiful set bevel, was the sharpest I'd ever got a razor off the 1 K.

Then proceeded to make the mistake of raising a slurry for the Norton 4/8 on the 4K side, and it seemed to set the sharpness way back. So started again, just used the slurry on the Nani 1K, got the exact same uber sharp results, went up the progression and presto, beautifully honed razor, very nice small even bevel, and was tree topping hairs.

I don't use crox, find most solutions inconsistent in the liquid and how it distributes on either the strop of balsa board,and for me it defeats the purpose of using the stones (my own YMMV)...

Great tip Bruno, and as another member said, I finally get to use: :brunoisright

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Originally Posted by mjwit

Just saw this and sent off an email to Shapton USA - the reply:

"absolutely false"

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Shapton must be selling all their GS line to USA then. 2 dealers I know in Japan can't get them.

Shapton Glass Stones. : Tools from Japan, Japanese woodworking tools direct from Japan.

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Originally Posted by Phrank

Honed a nice razor last night...had trouble setting the bevel (I'm still under 10 razors in..), remembered this thread, raised a slurry on my Nani 1k, set to it, and WOW!

Beautiful set bevel, was the sharpest I'd ever got a razor off the 1 K.

Then proceeded to make the mistake of raising a slurry for the Norton 4/8 on the 4K side, and it seemed to set the sharpness way back. So started again, just used the slurry on the Nani 1K, got the exact same uber sharp results, went up the progression and presto, beautifully honed razor, very nice small even bevel, and was tree topping hairs.

I don't use crox, find most solutions inconsistent in the liquid and how it distributes on either the strop of balsa board,and for me it defeats the purpose of using the stones (my own YMMV)...

Great tip Bruno, and as another member said, I finally get to use: :brunoisright

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Yes, my Norton 1k has been gathering dust and I needed to set a bevel and hone a Jos Elliott wedge (shudder)
After a few strokes with the blade on the worn DMT to get things started, I soaked the hone a while and went out and flattened it under running water and then raised what best slurry I could. Then, I began to swoop the heavy blade upon it.
Kept wetting it and it seemed to take the DMT scratches out quickly and the thing began to sharpen fast. In no time, it was felling hairs. I then quit and went a bit on a Naniwa 1k and went from there to my old 4/8. I had to be real careful and keep it wetted good or it may have well wire edged. Kept at a pyramid to smooth it out. Skipped the 12k and went to Escher.
Seldom have I had one feel this good so fast, as dull and worn as it was.No doubt it is bad-sharp.
Just need to see how smooth. I usually only change one thing at a time and this one change made a tough job easier, it seems. had always heard not to slurry synthetics, but just slurrying the 1k saved a pile of time. I now have found a use for that slow-assed Norton!

Thanks for the tip, Bruno! Oh, yes...:brunoisright

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Originally Posted by WW243

Reuben on rye, hold the slurry.

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Make mine with extra slurry, gotta keep the teeth clean.

Raised some slurry tonight and I have to say this method worked out pretty nicely for me! Razor (no name Swedish) is popping hairs like crazy!
Thanks Bruno! :brunoisright

I tried this method this am on a fairly new revisior. I used a suehiro 15 k instead of the 16 k shapton and thei results were fantastic.. Thanks 4 sharing

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Originally Posted by cubancigar2000

I am a believer in slurry on everything

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Slurry and biscuits!!!:o