Honing/lapping use a DMT325 or an Atoma 400

I bought a Gokumyo 20k, and when out of the box needed a good lapping. I put a DMT325 on it to tidy it up, but scratched it too much IMHO.I mellowed the DMT by doing knives on it to knock the top off the plate. I was honing the Gokumyo 20k and really didn't want to stuff it up. So I bought an Atoma 400.

Can anyone add light to the problems I have outlined? I do firmly believe the Gok 20 should be grid lapped well prior to use. It may take longer than a few figure 8's.

Also, what process if any does the ATOMA 400 require (It's yet to arrive)

Cheers Bob

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Originally Posted by bobski

I bought a Gokumyo 20k, and when out of the box needed a good lapping. I put a DMT325 on it to tidy it up, but scratched it too much IMHO.I mellowed the DMT by doing knives on it to knock the top off the plate. I was honing the Gokumyo 20k and really didn't want to stuff it up. So I bought an Atoma 400.

Can anyone add light to the problems I have outlined? I do firmly believe the Gok 20 should be grid lapped well prior to use. It may take longer than a few figure 8's.

Also, what process if any does the ATOMA 400 require (It's yet to arrive)

Cheers Bob

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Flatten your 20k with the Atoma & it will be broken in when you finish. If you're worried by the appearance of scratches I think a worn dmt gives a smoother looking finish.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Flatten your 20k with the Atoma & it will be broken in when you finish. If you're worried by the appearance of scratches I think a worn dmt gives a smoother looking finish.

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Thanks Oz,

I do believe your right about the well worn dmt. I like the surface of what is a $300 stone to look flat and mirror like. When I first used the new DMT325 prior to 'mellowing' I was annoyed, but following good advice got things clicking. Bear in mind the atoma 400 is yet to arrive, I'll be leaving the stones alone for a week or so.

Once again Oz, thankyou, sir.

Regards Bob

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Flatten your 20k with the Atoma & it will be broken in when you finish. If you're worried by the appearance of scratches I think a worn dmt gives a smoother looking finish.

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I also concur, not about the Atoma or the 20k because I have no clue / experience but about the worn dmt giving a nice finish. I have a DMT DIA-FLAT Lapping Plate and it leaves the surface of my hones with a distinct feeling. I can use my DMT C to make it smoother but I don't feel the need to as I like the feeling it leaves. Let's me read the feedback easier I find. None of my synthetics break 8k though. I'm sure if I had a 20k I would be using the worn dmt to make the surface ultimately smooth.

I find that my DMT 325 or whatever it is leaves scratches in harder stones. Those scratches can be worked out by rubbing the scratched hone with some other hone. A barber hone is great for this purpose. You could also use wet/dry sandpaper, the slurry the diamond hone generated, lapping grit, any other hone, etc.

I haven't had the 400, but I've got the Atoma 1200, and the DMT 325. The Atoma eats through everything like Grant took Richmond. You can buy 3 DMT 325s for the price of one Atoma, but if it lasts it will be worth every penny.

I suspect the 400 will be similar to the 325, since the grits are so close. The 1200 leaves some scratches too. Nothing I worry about. Before I had the 1200 all I ever used was a 325 and the hones got flat, the razors got sharp.

I really don’t think it matters, if you finish on a stone or stones or just use the lapping/cleaning 1/3K stone supplied. It is a very hard stone.
I lapped mine on a worn,140 plate to flat, had a small dip in the middle so remove a bit of the face, then finished with, 300, 600 and 1200 plates, it progressed quickly, not many laps at all, once flat.

Then I smoothed the face with the 1&3k supplied stone.

I use a small translucent to clean and refresh the face, with good results.

All probably over-kill... but then... so is buying one...

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I haven't had the 400, but I've got the Atoma 1200, and the DMT 325. The Atoma eats through everything like Grant took Richmond. You can buy 3 DMT 325s for the price of one Atoma, but if it lasts it will be worth every penny.

I suspect the 400 will be similar to the 325, since the grits are so close. The 1200 leaves some scratches too. Nothing I worry about. Before I had the 1200 all I ever used was a 325 and the hones got flat, the razors got sharp.

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I believe I read one of your posts you posted a couple years back when you said that you knew a honemeister that preferred the feel of a DMT XXC for lapping his stones. It might have been you that posted it. Anyways I have always been curious as to the finish of the hone and if it would effect the edge.

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Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

I believe I read one of your posts you posted a couple years back when you said that you knew a honemeister that preferred the feel of a DMT XXC for lapping his stones. It might have been you that posted it. Anyways I have always been curious as to the finish of the hone and if it would effect the edge.

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IIRC I may have posted that a couple of guys recommended the XX for lapping harder stones, such as barber hones. I bought one, and it damn sure will cut through anything in its path, but it leaves a rough finish. I used to use it to do the 'heavy work' and follow up with a 325. I don't use it at all now.

The post you are referring to might be in relation to a honer I know who preferred the older Norton lapping plates which left a rougher finish than the later Nortons. He has since moved on to diamond plates AFAIK.

Some honemieisters I know prefer to lap their hones up to 1k, even 2k. They feel it is advantageous to do so. Other honemeisters I know find 325 good enough. Until I got the Atoma 1200 I was a 325 man. Mostly because I'm too lazy to bother with sand paper and there was no diamond plate alternative until the Atoma. I mainly use the Atoma because it is so efficient, not because of the 1200 grit. The 325 was always okay for me, just that the 325 plates are too slow compared to the Atoma.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

IIRC I may have posted that a couple of guys recommended the XX for lapping harder stones, such as barber hones. I bought one, and it damn sure will cut through anything in its path, but it leaves a rough finish. I used to use it to do the 'heavy work' and follow up with a 325. I don't use it at all now.

The post you are referring to might be in relation to a honer I know who preferred the older Norton lapping plates which left a rougher finish than the later Nortons. He has since moved on to diamond plates AFAIK.

Some honemieisters I know prefer to lap their hones up to 1k, even 2k. They feel it is advantageous to do so. Other honemeisters I know find 325 good enough. Until I got the Atoma 1200 I was a 325 man. Mostly because I'm too lazy to bother with sand paper and there was no diamond plate alternative until the Atoma. I mainly use the Atoma because it is so efficient, not because of the 1200 grit. The 325 was always okay for me, just that the 325 plates are too slow compared to the Atoma.

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I'm going to go on a hunt for that post :lurk: Does it really even matter what your hones are lapped to grit wise as long as they are flat and consistent?

http://http://straightrazorpalace.com/workshop/72230-dmt-dia-sharp-dia-flat-plate-lapping-plate-10-x-4-a.html That very post would be found here Jimmy. I dig deep into the archives of SRP for information, you could say i'm on the hunt for knowledge.


I just figured out how to link other threads into current ones, :y

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Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER

I'm going to go on a hunt for that post :lurk: Does it really even matter what your hones are lapped to grit wise as long as they are flat and consistent?

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It doesn't matter much on softer stones like Shaptons, Choseras, Norton water stones et al as long as the diamond plates in question are worn in a bit. Super hard natural stones like Arks are different - they need a very smooth surface to work at their best.

Brand new diamond plates will tear the hell out of a stone, and then it will leave a bit worse finish. Once they are worn in it literally barely makes any difference at all to the finish on the steel what grit diamond plate you use to lap the stone. I have done tests and can't really tell much if a difference from a DMT XXC or Atoma 140 and a DMT 325 or Atoma 400. The Atoma 1200 gives a slightly better finish but barely noticeable at 150x magnification. A brand spanking new diamond plate of any grit used to lap a stone gives a noticeably worse finish on the razor. I highly recommend breaking in the diamond plate a bit with a chisel, screwdriver or whatever before using it on finishing stones.

The significant difference between using these different lapping plates to flatten your stones is that they dramatically alter the cutting speed of the stone until it starts to shed some abrasive particles. Flattening with the coarser diamond plate results in faster cutting while the finer results in much slower cutting.

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Originally Posted by eKretz

Brand new diamond plates will tear the hell out of a stone, and then it will leave a bit worse finish. Once they are worn in it literally barely makes any difference at all to the finish on the steel what grit diamond plate you use to lap the stone. I have done tests and can't really tell much if a difference from a DMT XXC or Atoma 140 and a DMT 325 or Atoma 400. The Atoma 1200 gives a slightly better finish but barely noticeable at 150x magnification. A brand spanking new diamond plate of any grit used to lap a stone gives a noticeably worse finish on the razor. I highly recommend breaking in the diamond plate a bit with a chisel, screwdriver or whatever before using it on finishing stones.

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Thanks for the advice. I'm completely inexperienced with all this, but after reading so much about them, I recently got a brand new DMT D8C (325) to use on my equally new Naniwa 1K, 5K, 8K and 10K super stones. Any more tips on how to break in the DMT? All my stones are brand new as well, and now I'm reluctant to lap them and lose their silky smooth surfaces!

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Originally Posted by wjosephsimmons

Thanks for the advice. I'm completely inexperienced with all this, but after reading so much about them, I recently got a brand new DMT D8C (325) to use on my equally new Naniwa 1K, 5K, 8K and 10K super stones. Any more tips on how to break in the DMT? All my stones are brand new as well, and now I'm reluctant to lap them and lose their silky smooth surfaces!

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Like mentioned above a old long screwdriver will take care of breaking in the DMT. Just rub the shaft of the driver onto the DMT with decent pressure and it will start to break it in. As to your other stones, if you don't lap them that silky smooth surface will be useless if they are not flat at least to the standards that DMT uses on their Dia-Sharp plates. I have a shapton 16 and I thought the same especially since the Glass Stones are only 5mm thick but when I went to flatten them I noticed that it was no where near flat and would not have produced a good edge until I gave in and flattened/Lapped it. And every once in a while you will have to lap your stones again because pressure, humidity, and temp differences will slightly "warp" a stone. Not much but enough to pull from flat. I noticed this with my 16k where I flattened it; honed a razor; and then the next day the high spot was in the middle not on the edges as one would assume. That is why I give a quick 5 or so laps before each honing session. Happy Honing.

I have used a 300 Trend, 325 DMT and Atoma 400 on my 20K Suehiro. The Suehiro is a hard stone and I use pretty light pressure to mostly clean it under running water it vs. lapping. To me mostly flat is good. I have not found that any of the scratching from the plates interferes with the results from the Suehiro stone and mine gets use daily. At this moment, this stone may be the best finisher out there in my opinion as well as extremely consistent and reliable. YMMV.

How's that for clarity from the honemeister himself. Always a pleasure to read what you've got to say Lynn.

My initial question about lapping plates, and their 'breaking in'? Oz (Onimaru55) said the Atoma 400, would be broken in after Lapping just one hone. That being said, some have said that the DMT325 can be broken in with a screwdriver. So the conundrum is, Am I going to get better results in lapping/truing say a Suehiro 20k with one or the other. I think I may be a bit manic about having scratches on $300 hones. So gents, we agree, from Oz that the Atoma 400 requires very little breaking in, if you could even call it that. I have a DMT325 that I have IMO broken in. The question I'd like an answer to, is, if you are lapping high grit stones, up to 20k, that are hard, which is the better plate for lapping, is it personal preference or is there a typical reason for one over the other. (DMT325 or Atoma 400) I understand Lynn's view, with the number of razors/hones he goes through, but for amateurs who like to attain excellence, is there a better way? Thanks Bob

The only benefits the Atoma offers is:

1. Consistent flatness for their low cost.
2. A surface that doesn't stick easily to the stone you lap.
3. An easily replaced lapping surface when the time comes.

I usually use the 1200 on my 20k & Jnats. I have yet to find any problem from any scratches the plates leave.

I just bought a New 20K and a 1200 Atoma. Started with DMT325 old work horse, after 5 minutes of pain. Opened up the New Atoma and it lappped the 20K in 5 minutes.
Felt like winning the lottery getting both tools at once.

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Originally Posted by ultrasoundguy2003

I just bought a New 20K and a 1200 Atoma. Started with DMT325 old work horse, after 5 minutes of pain. Opened up the New Atoma and it lappped the 20K in 5 minutes.
Felt like winning the lottery getting both tools at once.

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I've heard that the Atomas leave the DMT 325 in the dust. Really getting the urge to pick one up come payday!

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Originally Posted by sqzbxr

I've heard that the Atomas leave the DMT 325 in the dust. Really getting the urge to pick one up come payday!

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First off never talk bad about my DMT.... but

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Look at the time date stamp. I dont know what just happened, but the pictures prove it.
My DMT is my trusty rusty. but that was amazing to do. Numbers dont lie.
I dont know how long they last. I was warned that lapping the 20K was a long hard job.
So stone and plate $350. Done in 2 minutes.
Feeling like a genius because this worked first time both New out of the box. PRICELESS

If the Atoma is brand new, that's why you got done in 2 minutes. Diamond plates lap very quickly when they are new and the diamonds are still very sharp. My quite worn Atoma 400 takes quite some time to flatten my SG20k if it's much out of whack. When new it took a minute or two.

Break-in on a diamond plate is just getting the diamonds to lose their sharp points and knocking loose or breaking off the anomalously high diamond particles. After that happens, the diamond particles will continuously wear with use, gradually getting duller and duller.