New Hones, a Troublesome Vintage....

I decided to add to my 12k Naniwa finishing stone and get a Norton 220/1k Combo a well as a Norton 4k/8k combo. A local retailer had a deal I couldn't refuse so I got them well discounted. Having used the 12k a few times I had a pretty good idea how things would go...

I touched up 3 razors on the 4k/8k that were all new production and had set bevels, so I had no need to go down to the 1k. Those blades came out great! I took my time and went through 2 short and 1 long pyramid progression, did a final polish on the 12k and voila...great shavers.

I then decided to take out my nemesis...a 5/8 vintage from Whipped Dog. It was my first straight, and has a couple of challenges for sure. Significant hone wear on the spine (seemingly even), a well widened bevel as a result, and a nice chip that I put there with the help of my sink and faucet...alas....time to grind away a bit of metal on the 1k and bring it back to life....right?!?

I had to take it to the 220 briefly to get the chip out...no biggie. I then went to set the bevel on the 1k...and thought I had done well...went through the pyramids...and the edge just wouldn't come to life. I then took the 1k back out, used a marker...and the heel just won't hit the stone on either side of the blade. 45 degree angle of attack, circles, none of it. I applied a bit or torque...nope! So in short, I have a 2/3 sharp, 1/3 dull challenging razor. Granted I am a total greenhorn to honing, hence why my good geometry razors went fine...

So any theories on how one like me might learn from this wretched razor so I can make it a thing of beauty once again?

TIA,
Ted

Two to three layers of tape To set bevel. Remove one layer and continue on.

A photo would help, but my guess without one is that the edge is worn to the shoulder/stabilizer and that shoulder is preventing the heel end of the blade from touching the hone.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

A photo would help, but my guess without one is that the edge is worn to the shoulder/stabilizer and that shoulder is preventing the heel end of the blade from touching the hone.

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Pics on the way...hang tight 2 minutes....

Both sides of the blade
The hone wear is not me...well not all of it. Those pics were taken after my attempt to hone, but 99% of that was there prior to me giving this a go.
Attachment 196520
Attachment 196521

Start with 2 layers of tape and see how it goes, if it's still hard to hone add another layer (or more)

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Originally Posted by rodb

Start with 2 layers of tape and see how it goes, if it's still hard to hone add another layer (or more)

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After 3 layers it gets dicey. If it takes more than 3 I would send it out to a pro. That is just me. YMMV. :shrug:

Whelp...looks like a couple of layers of tape it is! I am going to give that a shot...in the interim if anyone has any other advice to lend I am listening!

Thanks for the quick responses. Much appreciated!

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Originally Posted by Chevhead

Two to three layers of tape To set bevel. Remove one layer and continue on.

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Three layers then down to two layer. Will that get the entire razor, from heel to toe, more evenly on the stone? Ted basically described my last 6 honing sessions...

Also, just read about holding the razor with the thumb and finger on the sides of the tang, rather than with the thumb on top to avoid too much pressure...I'd been honing with my thumb on top. Thought I'd mention that as well for an FYI for Ted....I haven't tried it yet, just read it myself here in another thread...

Send it to whoever honed it last time to fix it for you?

I would bet whipped dog initially used tape to hone that and I would actually try two layers and then as I finished add another for the last few passes. Or you could continue to add to the hone wear and use a rolling x or a 45 forward heel or whatever stroke it takes to get the whole blade on the stone. But if it were me this blade would be one of the few times I would use tape.

It "SHOULD" at least help to see if it can be done.

So I added 3 layers of tape. This got the vast majority of the spine and razor on the hone. I went through a 1k-4k-8k-12k progression and made some pretty serious progress. I don't have time today to really go to it, but the edge is really coming back to life! This razor is out of my rotation and is being used to learn to hone, so I don't really care TOO much what happens to it as long as I am learning. Based on these preliminary results I think it is fair to say that this blade was taped the last time it went through a whole soup-to-nuts progression. I will continue to work on this one and refine the technique, but I think in this case I am headed in the right direction. Thanks for the input everyone!

Good to hear!

I wouldn't recommend trying to hone that razor at this stage in your honing career. I would suggest you wait until you have more experience with honing.

When you do, you will probably be able to figure out what needs to be done. I know that I personally cannot diagnose a razor by looking at it, though I could suggest what I would try first. On that blade, what I would try first would be a pretty serious rolling honing motion; starting with the heel on the hone and the toe off the hone. I simply cannot imagine that you would ever get the entire length of that bevel on the hone at the same time (unless you remove enough steel from the rest of the blade to even things out).

The photos look like the bevel was never close to being set. There are too many dark spots in the bevel, there's a divot in the bevel left of middle on the back of the blade, and the front side shows the edge in the middle of the blade reflecting light.

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Originally Posted by Denvernoob

So I added 3 layers of tape. This got the vast majority of the spine and razor on the hone. I went through a 1k-4k-8k-12k progression and made some pretty serious progress. I don't have time today to really go to it, but the edge is really coming back to life! This razor is out of my rotation and is being used to learn to hone, so I don't really care TOO much what happens to it as long as I am learning. Based on these preliminary results I think it is fair to say that this blade was taped the last time it went through a whole soup-to-nuts progression. I will continue to work on this one and refine the technique, but I think in this case I am headed in the right direction. Thanks for the input everyone!

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Congrats. Learn everything you can.

I think a magician is what you need to get that razor new looking and shaving.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I think a magician is what you need to get that razor new looking and shaving.

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I took another stab at this one today and it got a little better...but I just can't get it there. I have honed 3 other razors on the 4k and up (no need for a total bevel reset on them) and those ended up fantastically (pyramid progression 4k/8k then finished on the 12k, CrOx, leather). I have used those 3 razors all week and had absolutely wonderful shaves so I think I have a pretty steady hand with blades that have good geometry. Perhaps it is time to find a razor with decent geometry that needs a good bevel set (I don't have one at the moment) and go from there....this one will be neatly tucked away for a time when my skills have developed considerably and I can take another stab at it!

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Originally Posted by Denvernoob

I took another stab at this one today and it got a little better...but I just can't get it there. I have honed 3 other razors on the 4k and up (no need for a total bevel reset on them) and those ended up fantastically (pyramid progression 4k/8k then finished on the 12k, CrOx, leather). I have used those 3 razors all week and had absolutely wonderful shaves so I think I have a pretty steady hand with blades that have good geometry. Perhaps it is time to find a razor with decent geometry that needs a good bevel set (I don't have one at the moment) and go from there....this one will be neatly tucked away for a time when my skills have developed considerably and I can take another stab at it!

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IMHO contact the person that honed it and ask how to do it, I am going to guess he may have used different number of layers of tape along the spine to compensate for uneven hone wear.

I somehow doubt he would use tape. I have bought 3 razors from Larry and they all have heavy wear on the spine

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Originally Posted by Steel

I would bet whipped dog initially used tape to hone that and I would actually try two layers and then as I finished add another for the last few passes. Or you could continue to add to the hone wear and use a rolling x or a 45 forward heel or whatever stroke it takes to get the whole blade on the stone. But if it were me this blade would be one of the few times I would use tape.

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Originally Posted by daverojo77

I somehow doubt he would use tape. I have bought 3 razors from Larry and they all have heavy wear on the spine

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That has nothing to do with tape , the hone wear could have been there since the razor was left to rust in a drawer somewhere. In any case we can only speculate and the seller knows what they did to hone the blade.

I tried one more time to get a bevel on this thing and I just don't have the chops. I am far to new and it is WAY to bad geometrically for me to overcome it at this point, even with my loupe which is new, helpful, and makes seeing things a LOT easier. Seeing a known good razor close up is extremely useful.

So I have another blade I can sacrifice on the way that should be in sufficient condition for me to work with successfully....as I am still trying to get from the 1k through the 12k progression. My 4k-12k is still going well at least!

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Originally Posted by Denvernoob

I tried one more time to get a bevel on this thing and I just don't have the chops. I am far to new and it is WAY to bad geometrically for me to overcome it at this point, even with my loupe which is new, helpful, and makes seeing things a LOT easier. Seeing a known good razor close up is extremely useful.

So I have another blade I can sacrifice on the way that should be in sufficient condition for me to work with successfully....as I am still trying to get from the 1k through the 12k progression. My 4k-12k is still going well at least!

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Might just be best to set that razor aside and come back to it another time. Not good to let it frustrate you. Trust me..... I am speaking from my own experiences.

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Originally Posted by Willisf

Might just be best to set that razor aside and come back to it another time. Not good to let it frustrate you. Trust me..... I am speaking from my own experiences.

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In an effort to redeem myself, I picked up one of my favorite vintage blades that needed a little attention...a W&B Special 5/8 hollow that had been beautifully restored. I admit I was hesitant to use it, but go big or go home! I taped the spine since there was very little hone wear on this and I am pretty sure the previous owner did the same..turns out I was right. I used 4k up through 12k since the bevel was pretty well set.

It took two attempts to reset the bevel on the 4k, but the swarf came up pretty fast so I didn't want to go down to the 1k and take too much metal off. At first it didn't really come together...everything looked pretty good under the loupe...but just a tiny bit or reflection on the edge on one side....40 more X strokes....and POW! Bevel set. Its like is wasn't...then it just was! Needless to say I stopped on the 4k there and went through 8k, 12k, TI pasted strop, CrOx on balsa...about 100 laps on leather....and wow....what a fantastic shave! It is a totally different feeling getting a 2 pass BBS shave due to my own work! Now I am hooked!