How do I fix a weak wide bevel/fin?

Like the title indicates, I have a razor that has a weak and wide bevel. Probably from overhoning causing too thin of material at the apex causing a fin/burr. This is my practice/experiment blade. I noticed that even if I would use the lightest of pressure the apex would still get pressed out of the way and not touch the stone. I added tape and it allowed me to reach the apex, but I am hoping to not have to use tape. Nothing wrong with it I just don't prefer it. any ideas as to how I can get down to better metal and thin out the width of my bevel?

More details and images as to my issue is found here http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...-get-line.html

When you honed the blade after adding tape did you notice if you have a two part bevel? The upper part from honing with no tape and a lower part down to the edge after honing with tape.

Bob

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Originally Posted by BobH

When you honed the blade after adding tape did you notice if you have a two part bevel? The upper part from honing with no tape and a lower part down to the edge after honing with tape.

Bob

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Yes. That is exactly what I see; a little micro bevel.

If you have lots of hone wear on the spine I think you will have to use tape, maybe even several layers. That's just the way it is with a worn spine.

Add one more layer of tape and see what happens. If you can post pics of what the bevels look like now, it will be very helpful.

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Originally Posted by rlmnshvstr8

Yes. That is exactly what I see; a little micro bevel.

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Take everything I am about to say with a grain of salt, not being an expert on honing myself.

OK, that is normal under the circumstances. Some people actually set a micro bevel as their normal way of doing things, usually on the finishing hone by adding a layer of tape then. It should shave with a micro bevel set.

How many layers of tape did you use? I did not see a pic of the blade overall so I was wondering how much hone wear there is on the spine. You can use layers of tape to compensate for excessive hone wear and by doing so you will get a smaller bevel than without using tape. You can see the difference in size between your normal bevel without tape and the micro bevel with tape. If you want to keep the small micro bevel size you have to keep using tape or you will be back to the wider bevel.

If you do have a wire edge a couple of back strokes, spine leading instead of the edge, might take care of that followed by a couple of very light normal strokes.

Bob

You might try measuring the blade and seeing what the bevel angle is. If it's in the normal 17 degree range (say 15-20) then the angle is likely not the issue. That's not to say the steel plus the angle is good ...

Usually fin edges are caused by too much pressure, an aggressive stone, or both. If you're using the lightest pressure, you might try a less aggressive stone. Might also try some circles and ellipses just to see if they give any different results.

If you have a coticule or a Jnat laying around, give them a whirl. If you want me to see if I get the fin on a Jnat, shoot me a PM and we can meet up.

Good luck! Steve

Here is some pics as requested

Attachment 197476Attachment 197477Attachment 197478Attachment 197479Attachment 197480

Now as to the included angle, I'm at 16.0°. Now I do know that I was using too much pressure during the bevel set. I'm still learning and that is one of the things I learned last weekend using the microscope.

Also check it for a frown, I'm not sure if I'm seeing one or not.

The white line that I see in the pics, where the apex is, is unset bevel IMO.
Just keep on working at it till the line is gone.

Yeah no frown. I checked that before. But the blade does have a slight warp. As to the bevel set, I knew someone would at least say that. This was after one shave. It started nice but by the time I was threw with my head it wasn't so nice. I was planing to take it back to the 8k and see if that takes it out; the 4k if necessary.

It's funny. I can't see this line when looking straight down on the edge at 20x under a bright light. But it's very evident here at 100x. :shrug:

Yep, towards the right side of the first image looks like the bevel isn't set. Given the angle and wide bevel, a layer of tape would bring you to about 17 degrees and make the bevel correction easier, though I am not a tape user.

Cheers, Steve

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Originally Posted by rlmnshvstr8

Yeah no frown. I checked that before. But the blade does have a slight warp. As to the bevel set, I knew someone would at least say that. This was after one shave. It started nice but by the time I was threw with my head it wasn't so nice. I was planing to take it back to the 8k and see if that takes it out; the 4k if necessary.

It's funny. I can't see this line when looking straight down on the edge at 20x under a bright light. But it's very evident here at 100x. :shrug:

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My suggestion in this case, is to run the edge on the side of the hone as if you are trying to slice it, no pressure, to get rid of the burr. Then go back to your 1k and redo the honing. Should be a fast process. Let us know if this helped..

Yes, have to agree, the bevel looks unset on the micro bevel created by using tape. I was surprised to see striations on both bevels in the non magnified pics. Maybe still too much pressure on the bevel setter, those should be gone by the end of honing.

Bob

Agree with Stefan - or join the edge. BTW, my stock solution for most problems when learning razors coming from knives was "1/4 the pressure, 4x the strokes".

Let me know if you want some honing company! We'll get you going.

Cheers, Steve

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Originally Posted by BobH

Yes, have to agree, the bevel looks unset on the micro bevel created by using tape. I was surprised to see striations on both bevels in the non magnified pics. Maybe still too much pressure on the bevel setter, those should be gone by the end of honing.

Bob

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Oh no. I just looked again under the light. What I think you are seeing is the primary bevel. That has 1k striations. But the secondary bevel is very hard to see in the pics because of res and focus but is very mirror like.

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Originally Posted by rlmnshvstr8

Oh no. I just looked again under the light. What I think you are seeing is the primary bevel. That has 1k striations. But the secondary bevel is very hard to see in the pics because of res and focus but is very mirror like.

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You may be right.

Bob

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Originally Posted by Steve56

Agree with Stefan - or join the edge. BTW, my stock solution for most problems when learning razors coming from knives was "1/4 the pressure, 4x the strokes".

Let me know if you want some honing company! We'll get you going.

Cheers, Steve

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I like that!

Here are some more pics after doing I would assume 200+ light strokes on the 4k.

These first two are from the same edge spot but the light is angled differently
Attachment 197496
Attachment 197497

Here is the same edge focused on at 400x
Attachment 197498

Here is my setup if anyone was wondering
Attachment 197493

This shapton 4k edge is popping hairs with ease and sometimes above skin level. So after looking at the 400x pic I would assume the bevel is set. So idk why I have a line at the 100x pic especially since the other pic looks as if the stria is to the apex :shrug::shrug::shrug:

After studying some pics alx posted in the thread mentioned above I still don't have it set.

My bevel at 400x
Attachment 197540

Unset bevel pic from Alex
Attachment 197541

Set bevel pic from Alex
Attachment 197543

How could setting a bevel be this hard? *sigh*
"Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming."

did you add another layer of tape?

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Originally Posted by mainaman

did you add another layer of tape?

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Thanks for reminding me. No not yet.

Hey Neil,

If you're like me a few years back, quite possibly too much pressure is keeping the very apex off the hone. That's assuming there's no underlying issue like a previously taped bevel, warp, or frown.

Cheers, Steve

I went back to my 2k and was still getting the line. So I thought to reflattening my stone. For some reason it was slightly high in the middle. It seems that over time all my Shapyonshapton do this. :shrug:

After reflattening my 2k this is what my edge looks like
Attachment 197576

That looks a lot better to me.

Cheers, Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rlmnshvstr8

I went back to my 2k and was still getting the line. So I thought to reflattening my stone. For some reason it was slightly high in the middle. It seems that over time all my Shapyonshapton do this. :shrug:

After reflattening my 2k this is what my edge looks like
Attachment 197576

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How I love when you can see photos of work. You could do it, the main thing is not to hurry.

Looks like your stabilizer is hitting the stone, (post 8 photos 2-4) keeping the heel off the stone and possibly half the edge as well.

You or the previous owner have used extra pressure to correct for this and succeed in grinding the spine at the heel and developing a heel spur.

First re-shape the heel, removing the spur, if not it will cut you, ink the edge and the stabilizer. That will tell you where you are hitting and that will have to be ground down to allow the edge to make full contact, or use a layer or 2 of tape to raise the angle to clear the stabilizer.

We recommend using tape to learn to hone to prevent these exact issues. Once you master honing where you are not needlessly grinding a spine and edge, you can decide if you want to use tape or not, but at least you will have a razor with an intact spine to hone.