I need help from experienced razor sharpeners and maintainers

I need help from experienced razor sharpeners and maintainers.


I've read lots of people's techniques and came to the conclusion that there isn't one right way but many right ways and people do what they are comfortable with and/or are familiar with.

So, I combined what I read but have fallen a little short. Close but no cigar. I can sharpen but still need to follow up with my DE. I believe that I have my shaving technique down pat after 80+ shaves. I do well with a Shavette but feel more comfortable with a standard razor. So, I'm not ready to give up!

I have a Dovo Best Quality 6/8" razor. I have the following whetstones: Norton 4000/8000 and a Chinese 12000. I keep them flat with a Dia-sharp DMT-300 (325 grit (45 µ), 8”x3” diamond whetstone). I also have a leather strop and a pressed felt strop. One side of the felt is impregnated with 0.50 µ diamond spray, the other with 0.25 µ diamond spray.

To sharpen, I soak the whetstones for at least 30 minutes. I then rub each surface against the Dia-sharp until they feel flat. I use the pyramid with the 8000 and 4000 stones. I prefer circular honing to x-stroking. So, I start with 7 circles on each side and repeat three more times to simulate about 25 strokes, and then proceed down the pyramid.

I then do 7 circular strokes on each side with the 12000 stone and repeat two more times.

Finally, I do ten round trips on the 0.5 µ felt strop and ten round trips on the 0.25 µ felt strop. Then I do 40 round trips on the leather strop.

For maintenance, I use the felt and leather after every shave.

So, the question is, how can I improve on this to get a razor-sharp razor, shave after shave?

No Pro but I would say make SURE your bevel is set. MM test
Next do a grid pattern on your stones to make sure they are flat. Feeling for flattens is NOT an accurate way.
As for the diamond spray I have no idea because I don't use it. I have read not to use it after every shave though.

Welcome friend. Pastes will help refresh once in awhile but not for everyday use at all. It sounds like you are well on your way and have enough stuff to do it right. Practice is something you can't buy or rush through. Do you have a razor honed by a pro as a bench mark. Your shavette is a good indicator of how sharp your straight should be but they are 2 different animals. The technique of using them is different also. I would suggest dropping everything but the straight and concentrate on just that. While your at the stones don't be so concerned with counts other than to make sure your doing both sides the same amount. Watch the water ,use the sharpie, test as you go. A loupe can help you see what's going on and is almost a must when learning. Maybe buy some cheap razors to practice on. Dull,hone, rinse, repeat till you got it :<0)

Was the razor purchased shave ready?

I would suggest a pencil grid on the stones to assure that they are flat. Feeling flat is too subjective. Draw a pattern, like tic-tac-toe on the surface you want to lap, with a pencil. Lap under running water, and when the grid is gone it should be flat. Repeat to make sure if you want to.

Next, even Nortons only soak for 15 minutes. Naniwas, Shaptons, and Choseras are usually splash and go with most guys. What type stones are you using ?

Your honing routine is too little of a good thing IME. Circles are good for some honing, not so much for others. Try going slower with x strokes.

Go to the SRP library and check out these articles. For someone beginning honing a prescribed system, by the numbers, takes the guess work out of when to stop.

Honing - Alternative approaches - Straight Razor Place Library

Pyramid honing guide - Straight Razor Place Library

as noted above you seem to be on the right path but you can't count a bevel set, this is the key to everything all other hones only polish the bevel edges really
it could take 20 or 100 plus strokes on a 1k hone let alone a 4k

I started with a 4/8k also & it can take a lot longer to set the bevel if not right & all dependent on your technique & the amount of pressure used (to much is worse than not enough)

I generally start with circles also at about 20 to 40 each stone but always finish the stone with about 20 X strokes extra light

I go through to 12K then use Chrox & Ferrox only when honing before clean felt & leather
not after every shave

if the blade is not shaving right either the bevel is not set or you are killing the edge stropping especially on the pastes ??

JMHO

It might be best to get with an experienced honer. The below link will find members and mentors in your area.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/memberlist.php?do=search

I bought it from CS and had them hone it. But that was 80+ shaves ago and the only SR I have.

So, I put in Virginia and it comes back with 92 members. How do I know which ones are close to me and which ones are experienced honers?

BTW, I do have a 30x/60x Jeweler's Loupe (got it from Sears online) but not sure I am properly reading what I am looking at. I'll read the links provided in the hopes of an aha moment.

I also suspect that I could use the 325 grit diamond plate to set a bevel if I need to a lot quicker than the 4000 will set it.

For sure the 325 will set a bevel fast but it's also a big jump from 325 to 4000, it will take some time on the 4000.

Of the 92 people near you, start by looking at high post counts, they have been here for awhile and would probably be able to help

I'm using Nortons, as noted. From what I'm reading, I need to get a 1k stone, and concentrate on a bevel by taping the spine and x-honing with the blade lying down.

Virginia is a big place :-). I guess I could always write to the big post counts and discover who may be near. I'm in the densest part of the state (by population).

Well, if you want to come down to the beach, I'm more than happy to help!

Moving this to the honing subforum might help! :shrug:

Thanks, but Virginia Beach is a long haul from NoVa.

Do you need to set a new bevel or just freshen up the edge? First you need to determine if it was previously honed with tape or not. Mark the bevel with a sharpie and do a few strokes on your finishing hone. Look at the bevel under the loupe. If the tip of the bevel is not coming clean it was previously honed with tape and you should continue honing with tape. I would also recommend against doing circles and concentrate on X strokes. Do all the reading you can about honing in the SRP library too.

Wouldn't moving it take an administrator?

Pabster is listed from Falls Church and is a mentor, he might be close

Moved to Honing forum.

btw DMT 325 is only for edge resoration not maintenance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaBlum

I need help from experienced razor sharpeners and maintainers.


I've read lots of people's techniques and came to the conclusion that there isn't one right way but many right ways and people do what they are comfortable with and/or are familiar with.

So, I combined what I read but have fallen a little short. Close but no cigar.


I prefer circular honing to x-stroking. So, I start with 7 circles on each side and repeat three more times to simulate about 25 strokes, and then proceed down the pyramid.

I then do 7 circular strokes on each side with the 12000 stone and repeat


So, the question is, how can I improve on this to get a razor-sharp razor, shave after shave

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Read your own statements here that I pulled out, you are asking for help yet in your own post said you won't follow it :hmmm:

Not one person I know of uses Circular strokes for all SR honing, in fact we use them for a heavy bevel set and little else, there is solid evidence of why the edge forward X style stroke works best for a CCS and has for about 300 years

The instructions that you find in the JaNorton thread will probably help you the most
Then you need to learn the X strokes and how to use them effectively and follow ONE set of instructions until you achieve consistency in your honing before you decide to create your own system


Just reading what you typed nothing more

@PaBlum: if you bought your razor shave-ready from CS you should not need the 4k/8K unless you have damaged the edge badly. A 12K is all you need. Using the 4K/8K too often you remove more metal than you need.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaBlum

So, I put in Virginia and it comes back with 92 members. How do I know which ones are close to me and which ones are experienced honers?

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Refine your search by using your town/city. It would help if you put your city/town under your name. Local members then know to contact you with one-on-one help.

This forum was/is built by experienced members helping those who need help.

Thanks, all. Some comments on the last few posts.
-- I never intended to say or imply that I wouldn't follow advice. Sorry that I gave that impression.
-- Thanks to the tips to finding a mentor, that would seem to be my best approach.
-- In trying to combine techniques, it appears I used the wrong ones at the wrong points. Consequently, I probably took a good blade and made a bad one out of it.

Been there done that

Wet shaving with a SR is a long journey. Getting everything right and all the stars in alignment takes a bit of time.

Don't get in a hurry and only try what you are comfortable doing.

Ask questions.

I have bought a number of razors many so called shave ready,on only one was the bevel set correctly,new Dovos are the most confusing as they have a factory edge,which is a t the wrong angle only when this is overtaken by your correct bevel will the razor be any good,in fact you know your getting close when the razor becomes quite blunt,soon after a super sharp edge is quickly established by default,an established bevel on a 8000 stone is sharp by definition.I think of honing as either re establing the bevel a very quick process indeed,or establishing a working bevel on a recently acquired razor various time.
I have an old oilstone very fine i use for establishing a working bevel as i can hear and feal where im at during the process.I use both index fingers gently on top of the razor favouring gently either end never the centre 95% of my honing is a circular motion in the wrong direction clockwiseup and back anti clockwise up and back which constitutes for me one pass,re establishing the bevel normaly 2x passes my Le Grelot one more,i finally and super gently put the final edge on honing in the correct direction.Everybody has to find their own way this is mine.One thing that confuses me is after re establishing the bevel on my razors,i do all of them together,if i do my normal 10 flax 50 leather i get a very edgy or too sharp an edge in fact 10 flax and 10 leather much better thereafter back to the normal 10 flax 50 leather.Sorry if what ive just written is against received wisdom,but it works for me.I have a japanese razor which i use regularly lovely to shave with that has never been honed on the URA side,there is a fine but perfect bevel on the URA side which has been stropped the same way as my other razors and only honed the one side,i have had no burr issues,and the URA side has never been near the hone.Take from that what you wish.
adductum

Only to clarify either end means either quarter.Sometimes i think i have got the perfect bevel honing in the wrong direction as above and when i try to put the final edge on in the right direction the edge comes off it tell me im not there yet two more passes as above usualy gets me there.As for pressure not much at all but some, difficult to explain, a bit more for the Belgium stone create slurry makes it more abrasive use just water for final edge.
adductum

Sorry to clarify i have each index finger over the centre of each half and never the centre.
adductum

I think you need less analysis and more do at this point. It's important to be able to hone a razor to shave with, but once you get to that point, it's not as complicated as your making it sound.

The subtleties, unfortunately, are better learned with experience than discussion, and that's what makes them hard to communicate and makes a simple process sound like more than it is.

Sorry to sound complicated but really if one can get an idea of whats happening to the razor your there really,just do what the razor asks of you if you know what i mean,the bevel is the holly grail,not some crude goal to be achieved with some crude 1000 grit stone.use your 8000 grit it will get you there it has with all my razors takes some time though not a problem for me,once there you have some sharp razor,and never round the blade with abrasive paste totaly counter productive,after achieving your perfect bevel protect it and not leave it too long to gently re establish the bevel 6 or 7 shaves long enough.Dont move untill youve got the idea,dont listen to this Know all i expect your saying, i dont mind,i am only speaking my mind because people make money out of peoples ignorance and i dont like it,and unless you have some idea you wont know whether your coming or going
i dont think experience will get you there,and i dont think it matters how you do it there is no right or wrong way of getting there,if you good at sex your good at honing its all feel and touch

If you can't finish a bevel at 1000 grit and not be too concerned about what's going on (especially with synthetics that are going to blast off any metal that is exposed by the bevel set, anyway), then something is wrong.

I have set bevels with a norton india stone (which is much more coarse than a 1000 grit stone) and finished only with a washita followed by a slow cutting coticule and never had an issue (using a medium india will create some tiny cosmetic scratches above the bevel since the particles are so large).

I'd suspect that any problems with a 1k grit stone would be due to it not actually reaching the edge, an inferior or defective razor, or way too much pressure on the part of the person handling the hone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adductum

Sorry to sound complicated but really if one can get an idea of whats happening to the razor your there really,just do what the razor asks of you if you know what i mean,the bevel is the holly grail,not some crude goal to be achieved with some crude 1000 grit stone.use your 8000 grit it will get you there it has with all my razors takes some time though not a problem for me,once there you have some sharp razor,and never round the blade with abrasive paste totaly counter productive,after achieving your perfect bevel protect it and not leave it too long to gently re establish the bevel 6 or 7 shaves long enough.Dont move untill youve got the idea,dont listen to this Know all i expect your saying, i dont mind,i am only speaking my mind because people make money out of peoples ignorance and i dont like it,and unless you have some idea you wont know whether your coming or going
i dont think experience will get you there,and i dont think it matters how you do it there is no right or wrong way of getting there,if you good at sex your good at honing its all feel and touch

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:roflmao
Not everybody makes money out of the ignorance of others. I just checked my wallet and it's still empty.

The original author must be totally confused at this point,these threads are not for people who cant work things out for themselves.

Not totally, but you are making a great effort at trying to confuse me :-). I'm also getting info from other sources and expect everything to fit together pretty soon.

“if you good at sex your good at honing its all feel and touch”

Well, there’s your problem…