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As i am learning to hone i've noticed that one side of the bevel gets "done" faster than the other (that is, gets rid of the scratches faster). as far as i can tell my grip is the same both directions as is the pressure. what side am i giving too much pressure on? i'm, using Naniwa 5 and 8k.
You might try "hand honing". Sit your hone in your non-dominant hand's open palm. This will add to the attention to your pressure...just don't get your thumb in the way!
thanks for the idea, would more pressure remove the scratches faster or make them deeper?
As a general rule, especially when learning, keep the pressure very light on your finisher and do more laps if necessary. The reason is because a razor's edge is so thin, it will flex and you'll end up not hitting the very apex of the cutting edge - you"ll be honing more up on shoulder of the bevel.
The handheld hone is a good technique. It's more difficult to use too much pressure, and if your stoke is uneven you can usually feel it pretty easily.
Cheers, Steve
I can't count how many times I split my thumb open!! It sorta wants to drift upwards slowly until.....$h!T......blood down to my elbow as I am looking for the bandaid that says "shark attack" so I look cool :)Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter74743
When do I use more pressure and when do I use less? First of all how MUCH is more and how much is less? How do we measure these words on a forum so someone can translate the phrase "less pressure" or "more pressure" into actually doing it on the stones? IMO you can't accurately convey "light pressure" that someone has learned over the years to someone who is just now learning to hone razors. I'M NO EXPERT!!! I've been shaving and honing and stropping for one year, seven months. I'm happy to say I'm finally getting some very good shaves from the razors I'm honing and stropping. But really understanding and being able to "feel" light pressure is only obtained through practice. When I finally started feeling it after several months (about a year I think) I thought "Oh, that's what they mean". I could actually "feel" what everyone had been putting in words. Remember the first day of swimming lessons? The instructor said swing your arms and kick your feet. Don't know about you but I could repeat the instructions perfectly and knew I knew how to swim. I jumped in and sank like a rock. :) Point is we need to "know" what to do and "know" how it should feel but,,, it takes time and practice to actually be able to do it. Enough of that.
One thing I learned and I assume I'm ok with this method is when I lay the razor on the stone I have the spine and the edge both on the stone. Then I (WITHOUT LIFTING SPINE OR EDGE) try to increase or lessen the pressure on the edge. The pressure on the spine is not as important. However the pressure should always be light. But, being able to "feel" the amount of pressure you are putting on the spine and edge SEPARATELY gives me a point of reference to use on "feeling" the amount of pressure. The amount of pressure on the edge is adjusted by twisting the razor at the tang with your fingers. This twisting doesn't result in the edge lifting off the stone. It results in less pressure being applied with the edge. This twisting I'm referring to also takes time to "feel".
I can't speak for anyone else but I NEVER learn anything fast. I'm not a prodigy at anything. For me learning to do things like this takes a lot of time. It's frustrating in two ways. One way is not improving fast enough for me. The other way is when I think I'm getting somewhere, in six months or so I realize I hadn't gotten gotten as far as I thought because now I'm even better than I was when I thought I was good. That means if I think I'm pretty good now in another 6 months or year I'll be even better. That's the encouraging part.
Someone mentioned one side of the edge getting finished before the other. I imagine you feel like you are doing the same thing to both sides. That's how it feels. But we know if there is a difference on opposite sides it's something we are doing because the steel on both sides is the same and the stone is the same. That only leaves us. When it comes to the scratch pattern and one side getting smoother sooner there's one thing to remember. We don't actually remove scratches. We remove the high spots in the effort of getting the steel high spots between the scratches even or level with the bottom of each scratch. This will require more of a "less" pressure "feel" than a more pressure "feel". With more pressure the stone will cut deeper. With less pressure the stone will only remove the high spots between the scratches. The "feeling" of how much pressure we are using needs to be evaluated going in both directions on opposite sides of the razor edge. The bevels can end up differently on opposite sides and also the bevel can look different at the heel than it does at the toe on the same side. It's all a matter of how we are stroking the razor. At this point we have probably heard all the tips from the experts and now it's time to let the razor do the teaching. If the razor edge looks different in different areas it is telling us we are using to much or too much pressure in some areas. Then just try to make adjustments. Over time the "feeling" of the pressure we are using will become a real thing that we can't explain to a new person. Then we understand the difference in knowing how to do something and actually being able to do it. This takes time and lots of practice. Get a $5 razor off ebay and practice with it every day for 15 minutes or so. Or an hour if you want. But when practicing be sure to focus on what you are doing and what is happening to the edge. After you loose the focus, stop practicing. Take it slow. The stroke motion should be very slow with accuracy as the only goal. Speed will happen all be itself. When it does the accuracy will already be there.
Lots of what I said I've learned from learning to do several things. Not just razors which I'm still NOT AN EXPERT. Not by any stretch of the imagination. But I'm seeing improvement just like the other things I've learned that require a delicate touch with my hands or tools.
Anyone just now learning to hone razors don't give up for one year. If you aren't improving as fast as you want just keep practicing. You won't be GOOD in 2 weeks or 1 month. It takes longer. If you don't want to go to that effort just work on mastering stropping and let someone else hone your razors once in a while. In fact, stropping is about 100 times more important that honing. If the razor honing MASTER gets the edge sharper than anyone else can in the world, that edge can be destroyed in a matter of one or two improper strokes on a strop. We need to learn to strop first. Then learning to hone will be a tremendous advantage. Just my opinions and again, I'm still very new to all of this so take everything I say with that in mind. I'm sure in another year I could read this and think "whoever wrote that is an idiot".
Jack
Ahhh.
What often happens is that we tend to be a little more scared of the "to me" stroke. Or maybe the "away" stroke.
Figure out which side is not getting a fully satisfactory bevel.
Ok, I found myself doing better on one side of the blade than the other when I used a stone holder.
I found that I could raise the near end of the stone a bit (± ¼") to get more pressure on the "to me" stroke.
Or, I can raise the other end to get more pressure on the "away" stroke.
This is only a short time fix for setting the bevel and through ±6K. Then hand holding the finishing stones work best.
After a while and basically sharp razors, hand holding of any stone will come naturally for all the stones..
Have fun, and if you tire; stop, the razor's been around a long time and a day or two won't matter!
~Richard
One of the things that you could do to get the feel of how much pressure is to take a kitchen scale that weighs in grams, and weigh your razor. Then take your stone, place it on the scale, tare the weight so the scale reads zero with the stone on it. Do a few strokes on it while your stone is on the scale and try to stay within the weight of your razor but no more than +50%. That will give you an idea of "weight of the razor" pressure.
However most of the time it for me is, when using a stone holder, just enough pressure to make a good contact with a steady stroke. But usually I use shooter's advice on hand honing. You get a good feeling of what pressure you are using and it almost forces you to use lighter pressure and almost any inconsistency of your stroke is compensated for by your other hand holding the stone.
Another thing to consider,in addition to downward pressure. The way you hold the razor can focus pressure on the bevel or spine. The amount of total pressure could be the same on both strokes, but focused more on the bevel while pushing or pulling. That's why Geezers method of raising one end of the stone will work. You could be torquing the razor slightly.