Everybody should have a flattening stone

Today I finally got to use the norton flattening stone I bought from howard.
O-M-G

This is just so much better than messing about with sandpaper.
My stones are much flatter than they used to be.

I can now easily do one-handed honing. I used to use 2 hands. I know this sounds really crazy and I can't explain it, but I have no problems anymore, honing with one hand. The stones feel totally different now.
I also get a much better result in much less time.
This is the best 25$ I've ever spent on razor related stuff.

question: on the paper it says that if you use them a lot, the flattening stone itself needs to be flattened. Has anybody ever had to do this?

Can you use the flattening stone with a coticule as well?

I did. My coticule is small (6*1.5) so I just made sure I used the entire flattening surface to prevent uneven wear. I also used very little pressure.

But it worked like a charm as well.
I think you are only supposed to use it with soft waterstones though. Norton, coticules and eschers or thuringers.

For flattening hard stones I think you need a DMT diamond hone or shapton flattening plate.
But then you are talking about 3 - 10 times the price of a cheap 25$ norton flattening stone.

You should be just as easily able to flatten the flattening stone with 1K wet dry on plate glass as you flatten your norton.

i could be wrong but i think the norton flattening stone is somewhere in the range of 220-300ish so i don't think you could lap the flattening stone with 1000 grit paper

I think Eric is right. I recall other guys saying the flattening stone is hard to lap; I've lapped a 220-grit water hone before, and it's tough work.

I don't quite understand why it would be necessary to lap the flattening stone if you're using it with stones that are about the same size. It seems like the wear would be pretty even across its surface. Maybe someone with more experience can weigh in here...

I personally wouldn't use it on a coticule, though. I've had bad experiences lapping hones that were very different in size or consistency. It also seems like lapping a small hone would wear the center of the flattening stone, requiring lapping...

But I could be way off on all this. :)

Josh

Yes, I have! I flatten all manner of stones on a DMT Coarse or DMT Extra Coarse diamond stone. In truth you shouldn't have to flatten a Norton flattening stone very often but I, as always, recommend checking the stone with a straightedge every so often. I use a machinist's rule for this as they are precision straightedge tools made by Starrett. A good thing to remember is that "flat" is a specification and not a state of perfection. "Flat" is just a question of money as any metrologist will tell you.

I have four or so barber hones, such as a "Diamond King", a "pseudo-Swaty", and a couple of others. I have found that they are too hard to flatten using the 220-wet-dry-sandpaper-on-glass method. Can someone suggest a better way, that doesn't take several hours and induce repetitive stress injury? Thanks!

-denis

Aside from the traditional wetdry on glass, how about against each other? Lapped my 2 hones beautifully that way.

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Originally Posted by grunion

I have four or so barber hones, such as a "Diamond King", a "pseudo-Swaty", and a couple of others. I have found that they are too hard to flatten using the 220-wet-dry-sandpaper-on-glass method. Can someone suggest a better way, that doesn't take several hours and induce repetitive stress injury? Thanks!

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Hah! try lapping a translucent arkansas!

These hones are tough to lap, but unlike the norton you don't have to do it very often, so amortized over the life of the hone it's actually not too bad. This is easier to accept once your arm has recovered and the memory has faded a bit though :-)

Mparker, that post about lapping Tam O'Shanters (yours appears to be a hell of a lot harder than mine) got me thinking about lapping in general, and now this thread too...

I wonder if I'm too casual about it. Unless it's a hard ark or something, lapping takes me about 5 minutes, 10 minutes max if I use two grits. I draw the grid on and then I sand it off, nuff said. I check to make sure the grid comes off evenly, then when the stone grips hard to the sandpaper-on-glass I figure I'm done. Chamfer the edges if it's a new stone, adding another 2-3 minutes.

Is there anything else to it? Is there really such a range in terms of how good your lapping can be? Should I be taking extra care to apply even pressure while gripping the stone, for example? And Bruno, why is the lapping stone so superior in its performance to sandpaper-on-glass?

Lapping a Norton takes a minute, tops. Same for my Shaptons. I lapped my coticule last night in maybe 30 seconds. It's only the hard hones that are tough to lap, and only because I don't immediately drop down to a sufficiently coarse grit to get the job done in a hurry. Except for arkansas. That's just tough to lap no matter what. I lap mine on crocus cloth, which is the only thing that seems to hold up.

For my barber hones I generally want the fine side slightly glazed, which I think makes for a finer edge. So I frequently do their final lapping on 1k sandpaper, then against an arkansas stone until the barber hone is beginning to get that glazed sheen.

My translucent arkansas is lapped to within an inch of its life. The final lapping was done with a barber hone, and when I was done the two of them would stick together dry; they would stick tight enough that you could pick up either hone and the other one would come up with it. But if you tilted the bottom hone even a few degrees the top hone would slide off like it was on ball bearings. It was pretty wierd.

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Originally Posted by mparker762

Lapping a Norton takes a minute, tops. Same for my Shaptons. I lapped my coticule last night in maybe 30 seconds. It's only the hard hones that are tough to lap, and only because I don't immediately drop down to a sufficiently coarse grit to get the job done in a hurry. Except for arkansas. That's just tough to lap no matter what. I lap mine on crocus cloth, which is the only thing that seems to hold up.

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OK, good, this jives with my experience. Yeah, the one time I lapped my hard white Ark it ripped through about 5 sheets of paper, and chamfering the edges was a real b-:cen .

I guess it's just that you've got a TOS from the superhard end of the spectrum, and I've got one from the other end completely. I'd almost be curious to send you mine for tests, see what difference if any there is in performance...

Well, when I lapped my nortons with sandpaper, the surface would be flat, but not 'open'.With the flattening stone, the surface becomes as porous as the day I first used it.

If I plonk my 1K/4K in a bucket of water, bubbles come streaming out, making a lot of noise. it didn't do that anymore when lappend on sandpaper.
Also, when I simply touch the surface, if feels very different.

But most importantly, the feel during honing is totally different. I cannot really describe it specifically, sorry. It takes less time to get a good edge.

At 25$, it is something you can easily find out for yourself. And if you no longer want it, I bet there are several people here willing to uy a second hand stone.

Yep get the stone. I'm getting by just fine with my sandpapers but I'll try most anything once. If you find that you need to sell that flattening stone, I'll buy a second hand stone. Just PM me.
Ernest

LOL! I'm glad you like the Norton Flattening stone Bruno. Norton makes quality tools and I use them for all kinds of honing projects besides razors (hand pushed reel type lawn mowers are a project right now). The Norton flattening stone is an excellent flattening value and will work on a coticule or other stone. Personally, I use my DMT diamond coarse continuous stone as I just do so much flattening every week. The DMTs are more expensive but they stay flat and the results are consistently repeatable. The sandpaper method made me crazy. I know a lot of folks use it but don't know if they've ever tried a flattening stone for comparison as you have. Different strokes for different folks!

My Norton flattening stone just arrived in the mail, I was thinking of ordering one anyway but Bruno's post gave me the required poke that I needed.

I haven't had chance to use it yet (job for the afternoon maybe), but on the instructions it says that when it eventually needs flattening itsself I'm supposed to use 220 grit waterproof sandpaper or a 'diamond sharpening stone'.

I'll report back later when I've tried it out.

I ordered a C and XX D8 Diamond plates. I'm sure my flatener is going to wear down soon (Lots of blue grit in the sink). I got them to help on re-profiling some kitchen knives, but they work great as flateners :D