Printable View
For those of you who rely heavily on Belgian hones: I've seen a couple of guys comment that it's harder to over hone with the Belgian blue and coticule. Is this generally true?
I have only just started using these stones, so I'm pretty curious. So far they seem to be reducing my overall honing time because I don't go through the dull-honed-overhoned-dull cycle as much.
Josh
This has been true with my Tam O'Shanter and translucent Arkansas; it may be that all these slow natural stones are overhoning-resistant.
I think it is the speed of cutting that will cause someone to overhone or not. EL had both my Hunsrueck and my NOS Thuringen and commented that while the same grit the Hunsrueck was much faster and hence far easier to over hone on. Customer responses fell right in line with that, 5 to 10 passes being more than enough otherwise they over honed.
BTW, the shipment we have been awaiting is officially lost. The Postal Service has no idea where it went, insurance has kicked in and we are awaiting the quarry for new stones.
Tony
I once spent about 3.5 hours taking out a nick on the yellow -you know the story- and then some more on blue and yellow to shape the bevel and sharpen it.
By that time I had honed it so much that it was shaveready. I just stopped when the edge looked nice. and that was that.
I don't think you can overhone on blue and yellow, but that's just me.
Of course, if you hone too much with a very thin razor, the edge might be thin and fragile and break off. So maybe it is still possible to hone too much, but this will not be immediately apparent in the shaving experience.
I've never overhoned on a yellow. And I've spend ages on certain razors.
Bruno,
It was your story that got me wondering about this... :) I think the Belgians are going to become my main hones for this reason. Once you have the bevel established, they seem plenty fast enough as polishers.
Thanks,
Josh
I can't say I've dealt with over-honing more than 1-2 times, and I think the razor might have come to me this way to begin with...
So I am surprised to hear about hone - overhone cycles. However, I do think my Norton isn't too fast of a cutter - so maybe this is why I have had no issues.
Cheers
Ivo
Ivo,
On razors with a nice, straight edge, I don't have any problems with overhoning. The issue for me is on odd blade shapes--smiles, warps, curved toes and heels... I have a hard time altering the strokes consistently to get the edge evenly sharp. So the middle ends up overhoned by the time the problem areas are properly honed... The narrow Belgians seem to handle these without any problems. :shrug:
Plus it's just really cool to hone with rocks. :)
Josh
I don’t think that I have ever over-honed on a Belgian stone either. Josh, are you using the blue and yellow Belgians right after setting the bevel on the side of the 1K Norton (skipping the 4K). If so around how many strokes do you find that you need to use on each stone to get the razor shave ready after setting the bevel on the 1K? I am thinking about purchasing a Norton 1K and was curious as to your experience with using it in conjunction with the Belgian stones.
I'll have to get back to you on that one. Right now I just sort of hone away until it seems like I've gotten the 1K scratches polished out. (Not using a microscope, just eyeballing it.) I'd guess I'm probably doing a few hundred strokes, which is probably way too many, but who cares? :) All in the name of progress...
I just got my rubbing stone yesterday; until then I was using the stones without much slurry. The slurry changes things quite a bit, I'm finding.
Fun stuff.
Josh
IMO a few hundred strokes is not too many, which is why I asked you what your experience. I have done several hundred strokes on the blue followed by about 50-100 on the yellow (both 3X8 stones) and have not had an issue with overhoning. I have also been able to set a bevel on the blue stone (no 1K or 4K) with patience. Obviously it takes more passes on the coticule if you are comming off the blue stone rather than the 8K side of the Norton. After seeing Mr. Zowada's study I plan on experimenting with using 10 passes on the coticule without a slurry before test shaving.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshEarl
remember that in addition to being a slow cutter to begin with the yellow is a final stage stone anyway. You would have to do some serious honing on it to overhone but you could if you really tried. I find when its time to touch up my razors it always between 75-100 passes with no pressure to get the job done.
I'm hoping Lynn will weigh in. When he goes to the coticule I think he pyramids with the Norton 8K (also here). I wonder why, as the chance of overhoning is so slight...
It sends my mind back to a very old thread in which X (I think it was X) was speculating that maybe the ideal edge has a combination of scratches (some 4K, some 8K, some coticule/escher) – as opposed to the conventional wisdom of scratches from fine stones replacing those of coarser ones...
Wow that's a lot of strokes.
Generally I do 20-40 laps on the 4K to establish a bevel.
Then 1 or 2 3-3, 1-3, 1-5 pyramids.
And depending on the HHT results, I do a 1-5, test, and repeat as necessary.
After that I finish with 5 strokes on the yellow.
Taking out nicks is done on the 1K, and the number of strokes really depend on the nicks. I hardly use my blue. Only on razors that are very britle or otherwise obnoxious.