Geometry Diagnostics.

My assessment indicates that my Krusius Brothers KB EXTRA has a twist to the blade geometry. Pics to follow.

I started honing this on my 12k M5 ceramic. One layer of tape. Good and slow :D. Using Alex's pyramid with x-strokes, I did probably 10 sets or so. Checking the edge under magnification every other set. That's when I noticed it. A taper to the bevel. After this, I looked at how it sat on the stone. Most notably: when backside is on the hone (face side up), the toe does not touch the hone, even though the spine does. There is a slight frown from this razor's previous life, but it's fairly obvious that isn't the root cause of the bevel issue.

The bevel.
Mostly even on the face side, but a slight bit thinner towards the heel. On the back side, however, there is a healthy new bevel at the heel; but nearly non-existent at the toe.

Pics. Numbered locations :nj.
Attachment 205721

Attachment 205723

Attachment 205724

Attachment 205725

Attachment 205726

Location 4: back side toe... hard to capture such a small bevel.
Attachment 205727

Attachment 205728
*turns light attached to loupe clipped to phone...*
Attachment 205729
*rotates light again.*

So... any particular hone acrobatics maneuvers I should try to remedy this? Once I noticed the twist, I started using my thumb to press the toe against the hone. Only got one or two sets done doing that before the wife beckoned, ending that honing session :angel:.

Looking forward to your thoughtful responses!

I have no idea what in the world the thread is really about,,,,:shrug:
but I love those last 6 photos,,,,,
reminds me of a space journey,, looking out of the ships portals onto a brave New World. :borg:

I'm trying to crowd-source suggestions on how to proceed honing this blade. That is, if my current compensatory method of pressing the edge down where it doesn't want to touch the hone is far from ideal?

Quote:

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So... any particular hone acrobatics maneuvers I should try to remedy this?

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Good luck ,, there are a few members here that live for Geometric honing problems.

Use magic marker and try rolling -x , heel forward, drawing the razor all the way to the tip of the hone starting with the heel.
See what gives best contact. You may have to correct the spine as well.

I too am a little confused at what we are looking at in the photos. Hard to tell what is new bevel and what is old.

Are you taping the bevels? An uneven bevel is not an unusual issue.

Could be the razor is warped, spine is not even thickness, or the blade is uneven width, though does not look it.

Ink the bevels, put a layer of tape on the spine and use a rolling X stroke. Watch the ink to ensure you are honing to the edge.

Crap. I forgot to point out the new bevel! Thanks.

The new bevel is sort of in the middle.

Attachment 205766
The first "port hole" pic has a good example of the old and new bevel at the same time. The new bevel is dominating the left side of the pic. The old edge is the hyper bright part, and all old bevel on the right side of the pic.

I'm trying to resist the urge to buy a USB microscope... don't need another expense lol :deal::aargh:.

Did that help?

You don’t need a USB scope.

You are not honing to the edge.

Are you using tape? If not use 1 layer if so, just do rolling X strokes to re set the bevel and hone from heel to toe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crawler

My assessment indicates that my Krusius Brothers KB EXTRA has a twist to the blade geometry.

...snip...

I started honing this on my 12k M5 ceramic. One layer of tape. Good and slow :D. Using Alex's pyramid with x-strokes, I did probably 10 sets or so. Checking the edge under magnification every other set... A taper to the bevel... Most notably: when backside is on the hone (face side up), the toe does not touch the hone, even though the spine does...

The bevel.
Mostly even on the face side, but a slight bit thinner towards the heel. On the back side, however, there is a healthy new bevel at the heel; but nearly non-existent at the toe.

...snip...

So... any particular hone acrobatics maneuvers I should try to remedy this? Once I noticed the twist, I started using my thumb to press the toe against the hone. Only got one or two sets done doing that before the wife beckoned, ending that honing session :angel:.

Looking forward to your thoughtful responses!

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There is an abbreviated version for the speed readers out there.

I'm aware that I wasn't honing to the edge. I knew I would be creating a new bevel. The old bevel was obviously not flat. Even my noob self was quick to spot that after a set or three on the stone. I wasn't using much of any pressure to start. Even now, it's only enough pressure at the right spot to get the whole edge down on the hone.

the blade is slightly twisted or warped. This can happen over time or from aggressive polishing on a buffing wheel. The rolling x stroke can be used to contact all points of the blade to the stone so there are not dull spots of course.

Now this is the hard way and i do not recommend it, i have broken several blades doing this. it is very easy to.

You can try to twist the blade back into shape so the bevel is even all the way across. it is very counter intuitive and must be done backwards sometime to achieve the desired effect. it have to lay the corner of the blade is still has marker on it and bend or flex by pushing it into the table. after several times of doing this it give it some more swipes on the stone to see if you are on the right track. i have fixed some warped blades doing this. again i don't recommend it, i have broken several blades and you will probably break your razor too.

Stone seeker… you’re kidding…right?

No, don’t do that…

Very few razors are perfectly straight; just hone it with a rolling X.

You said you started honing on a 12k; had the bevel been previously set? It's quite normal, when dealing with secondhand, vintage razors for them to have all sorts of weird wear and/or dullness. You may find that the whole thing comes in pretty fast when you go down to a 1k to properly set the bevel. Or maybe not, and then you'll know what you actually need to play with. I don't think that a 12k takes metal off fast enough to give you an good idea of what's really going on. At least not for me.

I'm still learning, and trying not to have the wife's eyes pop out of her head when it comes to my new hobby's budget. So the only hone I have is a Shapton 12k M5 ceramic that was less than $50 on Amazon with free shipping.

This is my second razor in attempting my own honing (I dare not hone my Dovo from SRD). So slow was one of the objectives. If I would have started out on a proper bevel setting hone, I would have flown right by this issue in no time at all.

That, I think, would have left me at a deficit when figuring out what strokes were best for this blade's geometry.

[U]Update./U]
I got a bit tired with how long it was taking on the 12k. And the new strokes I was trying were having good results on the problem toe. So I replaced the layer of tape on the spine, got a 4x9" 2k w&d paper wet, slapped it on my marble tile normally used for lapping, and tried something new (to me).

Did Alex's pyramid, starting at 10 strokes instead of 20. Only light pressure on the problem area, at the edge. Did maybe two or three sets like that. Bamf! Almost completely set the bevel. Now I just need to play with the toe a tad bit more, and I'll be in business. I think. Then it really will only take an hour of polishing on the 12k :tu.

Thoughts?

Dude buy a 4/8k Norton about 80 bucks.

If you are going to hone your own, you need some tools.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Stone seeker… you’re kidding…right?

No, don’t do that…

Very few razors are perfectly straight; just hone it with a rolling X.

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I have successfully straightened out several warped blade where parts weren't even touching the stone before i started. but yes i agree he shouldn't do it, its a very dangerous technique. and in this case it is not the problem

if you haven't set the bevel on the razor then that is your problem. you can send it out to somebody to hone it, then you can maintain the edge with your shapton 12k if you'd like. doing thousands of strokes on the your 12k can also help correct the bevel but its seems more reasonable to get a norton 4k/8k or naniwa 3k/8k

It looks to me like the stabilizer is hitting the stone. You can see a bright spot on it above the bevel on both sides. Unless your warp is really bad I wouldn't attempt to straighten it.

Either reshape the heal or blend the stabilizer with a dremel so it clears the stone while honing. Heal forward x strokes will get you around the problem too but it looks to me like it's time to fix it.