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Okay, so the standard line is to get a chisel and use it to prep the stone. what I am wondering is, can I do the same job with one of those 3" wide putty scrapers? I am thinking that, with the width of the scraper it will be easier to do the entire stone with each successive pass, and I am not worried about ruining the scraper, just getting my finisher ready for use.
Genius or jack-ass?
Pretty much anything hard enough will work, but unlike drill rod putty knives are soft metal so you'll likely wear away some of the putty knife if you use it on the stone.
Might work, but I have always used hard heavy carbon steel, Ax or hatchet head, large carbon kitchen knife or best, a large carbon steel cleaver? You can buy old cleavers cheap at swapmeet for a couple dollars.
The trick is to use heavy pressure to smooth the stone. Use a little soapy water or oil as a lubricant. Make sure to bevel the edges so you don’t slip and chip an edge.
Another benefit of using a large kitchen knife or cleaver is you end up with a super sharp knife or cleaver, both handy to have in the kitchen.
I use a six inch long piece of tool steel, one inch wide and half an inch thick. Allows me to use a great deal of pressure with allot of control.
For me this seems easier on the hands, can be used with either hand, and as long as this tedious job takes, that's a bonus.
How long does this take?Quote:
Originally Posted by FranfC
Depends on how well you finished the stone, take it to 2k wet and dry. It should be smooth when you start burnishing.
You can always come back and do more.
I usually work the stone in half do 100 laps from one side from front to back, spin the stone 180 and do another 100, keep going and spinning, until the stone is super smooth. Probably 2-300 laps.
So it depends on what you are using, how wide and flat the burnisher is, how much pressure you are applying, (with a large knife or cleaver you can use both hands and apply body pressure) and what you started with ( how well you lapped the stone) and of course the size of your stone.
It a bit of work but once its done you never have to do it again.
Wow, thanks for the reply! I have tried a few straights and luckily they have been shave ready or done by a pro but I think I should stick with DE's as they have alot less maintenance and extra costs to deal with to get a whetstone ready to use or even a high grit waterstone. I was hoping to work with what I or purchase one stone for refreshing but I dont think cost wise it is something I want to get too much into to. I did like the idea but physically it is also harder for me to shave with a straight as I had eye surgery many moons ago that didnt turn out as planned so it is harder to see a straight on that side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
+1 to the description above.
The last one I did, a primitive Black form Dan's that's about 8"X4" took me about three hours to get it just right, and that's after a week lapping it flat and polishing to the 2K level.
I have been burnishing my translucent for years! Kitchen knives, pocket knives, camp knives, and more recently straight razors. I think it should only take a few hundred laps, as Euclid said above and if done right, to have a workable stone but then it just gets better with age.
UWell I don't agree with that. I only have one eye and I shave just fine with it, your just new and haven't learned to shave yet,, it comes too you. As far as being a lot of trouble to get a stone ready , just stick with synthetics or don't bother with the cost and trouble just send them out,,it not like you have to do it all the time ,, I have razors go as long as a year before needing honed. Learn your strop and they last a long time. Good luck. TcQuote:
Originally Posted by SirMike
And it starts . . .
Bought some baby oil tonight and a cheap Faberware knife at Walmart. Spent an hour watching TV with the Missus and slowly making X-stroke passes back and forth while occasionally reloading the oil. I probably put more oil on the stone than needed, but what the hell, I doubt it will do any harm. After the show was over I added more oil and wiped the stone clean, as I saw in a video. Took a little dab of oil after that and ran it across the stone and put it away. I probably could have used more pressure, but I am in no great rush to use this finisher, so slow and steady is fine with me. It took a LOT of metal off, that is for sure, and it is starting to acquire a sheen, if not a mirror finish. Looking forward to working it more later this week.
I use CRoX for calming new hard stones - put it on top and rubb the kitchen knife on with the flat . Its messy but you polish the stone and th knife together .
Knife was purchase specifically to "break in" the stone, so I do not care about what happens to it. I think I will stick with the simplest method. But thanks, just the same. It is an interesting notion to keep in mind.
How long do you think it will take to get the Black Arkie to a mirror like finish to use as a finisher for a straight?Quote:
Originally Posted by Orville
Honestly, I have no idea. Based on what some have posted here about what it should look like, I am only certain that mine is not there yet.
It really depends on how far you take your initial polishing. I took mine to 2K W/D, then a very hard J-Nat tomo and then a six inch piece of tool steel on oil with quite a bit of pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMike
Four hours later she's ready to go, very reflective and puts a stunning edge on a well honed razor.
Another 60 - 90 minutes last night. Not sure about the stone, but the knife is starting to pop hair on my arm. :hmmm:
Probably a good two and a half hours of work into it so far. Not even going to think about posting a pic for another 3 hours.
Pressure is what you want to apply, time on the stone with any blade will help but not as fast as pressure, which is why a large knife or chisel works well, use your body weight and lean into it.
It is not so much what it looks like, as it should feel smooth as wet glass. A razor should glide on the surface. It is just for polishing, post 8 or 12k edge.
Here is a nice 10X3 Black Ark, super smooth.
Attachment 206769
Thanks . . . one question . . . is that stone dry, or is it oiled?
Also, I take your point about pressure but, as I am still a complete rookie at this, I would rather take more time and be cautious, than do something which damage or otherwise mar the stone.
Start honing a razor on it and find out what edge you get. I have never done anything with my stones other than use them for planes and chisels and pocket knives, but suggested in other threads to use tool steel to condition them because I know what planes and chisels and pocket knives have done to them. As soon as your stone loses bite and goes to some polish and some cut, it's ready to finish a razor. Beyond that is a matter of what you decide you want from the stone.
If you take care of the stone this only needs to be done once (or not for a long time) right?
I recently got a trans gray Arkansas stone I need to prep for use on my razors.
Yup, just once, using it to hone razors will burnish it further.
So, if you buy an old hard Ark, and it is smooth, try it before you lap, or do anything to it. If it is has been used a lot, it could be very smooth and work well with razors, lapping will just cause you to start all over again.
These stones can get quite polished but they don't need to be super burnished to finish a razor. There is a point of diminished return in my opinion so don't spend half your life getting your stone prepped but do take some time to get it started and with time and use it will get better. Here is a couple picks of my translucent arkansas. Both are dry. The first is in strong lamp light and the second is a soft reflection on a cloudy day. You can see my truck in the reflection. Just to give you an idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orville
Thanks. Mine isn't there yet, but it's nice to see what I should be looking to get to . . .
As for putting a razor on one, I have a few recent acquisitions that, when I get to the point of honing, I will be running across this stone, just to see where it is. but that is a few weeks down the line, so it should be ready by that time.
Yes, as said you don’t have to spend a life time burnishing, That, large stone was burnished many years ago, 20-30 years and has finished, many, many razors. It has also been a long time since that photo was taken, I think it had some water on it.
But as said, finish a razor on your stone, 100 laps is not unusual, unless you are micro-beveling, which works very well with Arks, just another layer of tape. Also experiment with lubricants, water, soap/lather, oil and Smith’s.
2-300 heavy laps with a lot of pressure, should be enough to get a good edge on a razor, once a stone is finished up to a 1k progression. With use the stone will continue to improve in performance, but very slightly.
The bevel will be a hazy finish, which makes it hard to compare results, the shave is what counts.
Never mind . . . misread your post.
So . . . another 200 laps last night. I tried applying more pressure, but felt I was not consistent in my application. Will need to work on that. Lots of dark matter coming off in the clean up. Paper towel to wipe off the last spritz of baby oil. Stone is not a mirror (yet), but I can make out the outline of my face, as well as shadow and light areas, so . . . progress.
All told, I have spent perhaps three hours on this project. Expected it to take much longer based on what some postings alluded to.
Hey that sounds great! It sounds like the stone is cutting and if you can make out an out line in it then it should be good enough to try a razor on. It really doesn't take long at all and even less time if you use pressure. Woodworkers sharpen chisels on them with a great deal of pressure and it should only take minutes really to get a decent burnish and then every razor you do on it will contribute. I think it is Richard (maybe someone else) that says something to the effect of "stone polishes razor and the razor polishes the stone". If it is not giving you a great edge then maybe it is the burnish but if I had to guess I would say your stone has the bare minimum to start. Of course without seeing the stone or feeling it I am just guessing.
Quite possibly it is ready. But, as I said previous, I am in no rush. Going to give a few hundred more laps while I work on getting a razor ready to go through my films, and then get finished on my arky.
I appreciate all the comments in this thread guys. sometimes things can seem pretty daunting to someone with no prior knowledge or experience. Having more experienced hands discussing these things brings about a clearer perspective, and removes a lot of the "mystery" from the process. Thanks, again.
I dont have a black Ark but I do have a Norton White translucent Ark that I plan on making my super finisher.
So . . . since my last post, I have probably put in another two hours of time burnishing my Ark. I have also taken the broken scales off one of my Boise Razors. I cleaned it up as much as I dared without losing the blade etching, and ran it over my films (15um, 3um, 0.5um, 0.1um). Then I ran it over my ark for 200 laps. Minimal pressure just smooth strokes up and back. Shave test on my cheeks was no too bad, except I forgot to strop it first. Going to give it 100 more laps, and then 100 laps on the strop and try my cheeks again. Not trying anything else as it is surprisingly awkward to use a Straight without scales. But I am happy so far.
