Removing waste metal

Sorry I couldn't think of a better title at the present.
I just wanna get peoples thoughts or techniques on removing foil edges.

I'm not talking about the standard foil edge. I'm referring to the microscopic foil edge.
Recently I've read and seen a few videos on this subject.

When nearing the latter stages of honing some lightly drag the edge (bread knife style) on a hone or hard felt or what ever .
The purpose is to remove the build up of metal on the very edge, sitting on the apex . This also supposedly would join the two sides of the bevel. They then bring the edge back with more strokes.

I've been trying this a number of ways or at a number of stages. At the moment I'll set the bevel on the 1k Chosera .I'm imagining that this is where most of the excess metal would form. (after bevel setting) So then I lightly dull the edge on the 5k and then with not much work bring that set bevel back on the 5k.

Then I hit the Jnat/Naguras to a finish.

Does anyone do this type of thing or have any thoughts on it?
I think that there isn't really much of a need for it but I love experimenting ,evolving, progressing.
Thanks

Never heard of a standard foil edge on SRP till now :shrug:

After honing, an edge always benefits from stropping but i don't know if it would be defined as a microscopic foil/wire at that point.

If you're getting a wire edge you're using too much pressure or honing for too long on one side or are restoring an edge.
The first 2 can be avoided. The last one, not so much ;)

I find each stone in a progression improves the edge with no other action needed, however if the bevel is not well set an edge can collapse towards one side.

Glass, felt, jointing etc. are all usefull at early stages of edge restoring. If you push too far at end stage you can always just go to your 2nd last stone or use some felt etc but it is avoidable to get to that situation in simple honing.

Watch this video, at 29.20 mins he drags the edge on the Shapton 30k.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z1voZKvGW8

There is another video which I cant find at the moment. The guy shows the edge under a microscope after doing this and you can see there are less teeth on the edge at the end of honing after doing this.

That videos 30 min! Don't have time to watch it. If I'm doing a lot of work to set a bevel I'll use an extra layer of tape and more pressure until the bevel is somewhat set. I the remove the extra layer of tape, dull the edge on a glass and finish setting the bevel. When a bevel is set you don't want to do anything but polish the edge with your finer stones.

The video above is of Howard Schechter at the perfect edge. I've watched this vid many times. I understand him to say to do the edge thing if you go out to 30k. Because it's so fine a wire could build up. I don't know if a wire might build up if you only go to 12k or 16k.

Except for the final honing step, burrs along the edge will form. Kind of hard to avoid when two sharpening planes meet in a malleable material like steel. An easy way to remove them is to lightly draw the edge along one's thumbnail. Or if that doesn't sound appealing then drawing the razor through a piece of scrap paper (printer paper, a 3M PostIt note, a piece of paper towel, etc.) will work. Or the old-timer way: draw the edge lightly across a wooden match stick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JOB15

Watch this video, at 29.20 mins he drags the edge on the Shapton 30k..

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Well, that honing process from 1k to16k confirms everything I said. "If you're getting a wire edge you're using too much pressure or honing for too long on one side"

IMO, 2 hands & 3 finger pressure is way too much pressure on the edge. 6o x on each side & it completes the recipe for a wire edge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Well, that honing process from 1k to16k confirms everything I said. "If you're getting a wire edge you're using too much pressure or honing for too long on one side"

IMO, 2 hands & 3 finger pressure is way too much pressure on the edge. 6o x on each side & it completes the recipe for a wire edge.

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I totally agree with you. The 30k is usually used like 3 stroke or so. This guy does and says some confusing stuff anyway, like he doesn't strop because it ruins the edge and he has some strange beliefs concerning Jnats.

Hears another video , it kinda shows metal dust on the edge.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CL4okt-QxA

Getting to a straight edge can take many forms. Traditionally we hone on higher grit stones, alternating sides and the ragged 1K edge is abraded off as the edge straightens on higher grit stones.

I find it quicker and easier to remove the ragged edge early on, then keep the edge straight.

At 1k, side honing removes the heavy stria from the bevel and straightens the edge. Stropping after the bevel is set, also smooths out the edge, especially on linen or a pasted, Chrome Oxide strop, Jointing post 1k and at the finish stone straightens the edge and is easily reformed, as does “corking” on paper, fingernail leather or felt.

Really if you use a proper progression and pressure, any raggedness is honed away and is not a big an issue at the finish stone, just do lite laps, strop, Joint the edge or create a micro bevel.

Stropping post honing, straightens the edge.

The perfect edge video joints the edge at the finish stone. It is a simple and effective technique, but as Oz observed, the burr was created early on by excessive pressure and laps on one side of the bevel in the low grit stones. There are many ways to deal with it … or avoid creating one.

the TNT is my goto way for most edges

Restoration edges get a few strokes on the corner of the 1k stone then a reset

IMHO / IME

If you have "Issues" at the upper levels of honing, then you screwed up at the lower levels of honing :p


I think Oz already said the exact same thing too :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

I find each stone in a progression improves the edge with no other action needed, however if the bevel is not well set an edge can collapse towards one side.

Glass, felt, jointing etc. are all usefull at early stages of edge restoring. If you push too far at end stage you can always just go to your 2nd last stone or use some felt etc but it is avoidable to get to that situation in simple honing.

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So did Marty

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Getting to a straight edge can take many forms. Traditionally we hone on higher grit stones, alternating sides and the ragged 1K edge is abraded off as the edge straightens on higher grit stones.

I find it quicker and easier to remove the ragged edge early on, then keep the edge straight.

At 1k, side honing removes the heavy stria from the bevel and straightens the edge. Stropping after the bevel is set, also smooths out the edge, especially on linen or a pasted, Chrome Oxide strop, Jointing post 1k and at the finish stone straightens the edge and is easily reformed, as does “corking” on paper, fingernail leather or felt.

Really if you use a proper progression and pressure, any raggedness is honed away and is not a big an issue at the finish stone, just do lite laps, strop, Joint the edge or create a micro bevel.

Stropping post honing, straightens the edge.

The perfect edge video joints the edge at the finish stone. It is a simple and effective technique, but as Oz observed, the burr was created early on by excessive pressure and laps on one side of the bevel in the low grit stones. There are many ways to deal with it … or avoid creating one.

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The TNT is some thing I've never tried, I will try that today, instead of hitting the edge of the stone.

The way I see it is that there isn't really a need for correcting a ragged edge on my razors but every little percentage helps, kinda.

I'd like to strop after the 1k but I first wanna buy a cheaper strop, I don't wanna get metal on my Kanayama 90000 .
I 've given away all my old strops :gaah: Or I could dig out the linen I never use.

Or you could just strop on newspaper--a cheap and disposable strop for clearing off your edge before the leather.

Strop on a piece of cardboard, a nylon /cotton woven belt or strapping. I keep a Chrome Oxide pasted sailcloth strop in the shop, just for that purpose.

Just remember if you cork, you run the risk of dulling the edge and will need to re-hone, especially TNT. If you are corking at high grits, it is not that big of an issue, as the edge will come back in a few laps.

Matt’s idea is to cork in a cut already made in the material, (felt block) to reduce damage to the edge, but a few cleanup laps would not hurt.

I just had a sesh.
I decided to forgo the TNT , I don't look after my finger nails to then scar them with a blade :hmmm:
So got out the Kanayama linen . I'd forgotten that that thing was a joke. It has rims on either side that protrude above the rest of the strop but I used it anyway, it had been previously softened.
It worked or not , who knows?

I remembered I had a brand new SRD paddle strop that I'd never used, I bought it for sprays a few years ago but never got around to using it.
Finished my honing , stropped on the cordovan and it was barley popping hairs, so I gave it a go with a harder Tomo and then onto the paddle, suede then leather 10/30.
Wow is it popping tree top hairs. So I got a few razors out and stropped them on the paddle , very nice .
I'm gonna start using it now and probably between stones because its a paddle by my side I don't have to stand up to use the hanging..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JOB15

I just had a sesh.
I decided to forgo the TNT , I don't look after my finger nails to then scar them with a blade :hmmm:
So got out the Kanayama linen . I'd forgotten that that thing was a joke. It has rims on either side that protrude above the rest of the strop but I used it anyway, it had been previously softened.
It worked or not , who knows?

I remembered I had a brand new SRD paddle strop that I'd never used, I bought it for sprays a few years ago but never got around to using it.
Finished my honing , stropped on the cordovan and it was barley popping hairs, so I gave it a go with a harder Tomo and then onto the paddle, suede then leather 10/30.
Wow is it popping tree top hairs. So I got a few razors out and stropped them on the paddle , very nice .
I'm gonna start using it now and probably between stones because its a paddle by my side I don't have to stand up to use the hanging..

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Not sure why I cant edit this post.
I just realised that the Kanayama 90000 linen strop has front and a back.
One side the edge bands protrude just touch and on the other side the its all flat or nearly near enough flat.
I owe Kanayama an apology...

Dear Sir,Madam,Members of Japan, I hereby fully apologise for my ignorance :tameshigiri: